Is Curse voice legal?

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Militiaman293

Senior Member

03-13-2014

Is there honestly any difference in the way they track buffs over me setting my egg timer everytime I kill a camp?


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Blunts4Brekfast

Senior Member

03-13-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shengunxan View Post
Read this please:

please look up the definition of "keystroke" since you clearly dont know what it means.

if you do know what it means, your reply is off topic. it has nothing to do with my argument that less keystrokes is an advantage for a player

its not a complicated concept.

the only way I can think that you may not understand is if you dont know what the word keystroke means.


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HowDoIShot

Senior Member

03-13-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot Sargonas View Post
This is actually something we've been discussing lately ourselves. Currently we've not taken an official stance on the use of Curse Voice, but we do find it an interesting application. Rest assured, we're aware of the polarizing effects it's had on parts of the community lately and are keeping an open mind. We're taking our time to make sure we make decisions that are the best for the community, as the more information we make available through systems such as our new API, the more that creative tools like this that are developed by the community will arise.

Personally however, I rather enjoy the timers as I'm simply not at a skill level to keep track of those things effectively in my head, and it saves me from having a watch or notepad sitting next to my keyboard.
Honestly, given that chat has timestamps (or the option of them) this is dead simple:

Add a message for blue and red buffs the way you do for Baron and Dragon. "Lee Sin has slain Ancient Golem!" Then you'd have the timer any time you hit Z to see chat.

Want to make it that much easier, add a button you can hold to show only system messages -- not pings or chat. That'll make sure you can see the timestamp of Baron, Dragon, and all the buffs you've seen.

When it comes to timing Flashes, you can't assume anything, because Flash time varies with masteries. All summoner spells do. Those timers shouldn't be available, but if someone wanted to try, they could simply type "he flashed" the way they type red/blue timers.

Point is, timers themselves aren't really a problem. If you guys at Riot decide that it's an irrelevant factor in the game, you can make it easier.

However, allowing programs to augment themselves into the League client is a very dangerous precedent to set. I'm sure you're all aware that the decision for this program will affect the proliferation of future programs that "help" with certain aspects of the game that some people deem unnecessary.


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StickZi

Member

03-13-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blunts4Brekfast View Post
please look up the definition of "keystroke" since you clearly dont know what it means.

if you do know what it means, your reply is off topic. it has nothing to do with my argument that less keystrokes is an advantage for a player

its not a complicated concept.

the only way I can think that you may not understand is if you dont know what the word keystroke means.
I am just quoting someone else's post, responding to me regarding incorrect terminology usage does not help.

The point is: last hitting requires you to perform an action (attack the minion), it also requires skill (knowing your champion attack animation, knowing how much damage you deal so you can get the killing blow, etc.), and having a program that performs the action FOR you is essentially like the program playing the game for you = botting, which is illegal.

This is fundamentally different from timestamps. Last-hitting has a direct influence on the outcome of the game, tracking objective timers do not.

Now you might argue: but knowing that information helps my team secure objectives, does it not? Yes, but having that said, the information is available for everyone (provided you have vision on the objective when it was downed of course), it's a matter of whether or not you decide to track that information or not, it is not a game-changing action, it is NOT information that is otherwise inaccessible, and therefore CANNOT be compared to auto-last-hitting.


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Riot Sargonas

Developer Relations Manager

Follow Riot Sargonas on Twitter

03-13-2014
2 of 9 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by HowDoIShot View Post
However, allowing programs to augment themselves into the League client is a very dangerous precedent to set. I'm sure you're all aware that the decision for this program will affect the proliferation of future programs that "help" with certain aspects of the game that some people deem unnecessary.
Indeed, that is why we are taking our time to thoroughly think about how we approach this, and are also paying close attention to how the community feels as well as involving the design team. It's clearly a very polarizing topic and this is slightly new territory, and what we do will set a precedent. As the manager of the team who handles our partnerships with third party developers, I just wanted to drop by the thread and let everyone know this was something that was indeed on our radar. We've seen a lot of threads about this in recent days and I felt it was important to make sure you guys knew we were aware of it's importance to you, even though we've not developed a policy around it yet.


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Siigari

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Senior Member

03-13-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot Sargonas View Post
handles our partnerships with third party developers
Bingo.

Curse coming to League of Legends soon, if Curse puts out.


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StickZi

Member

03-13-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot Sargonas View Post
Indeed, that is why we are taking our time to thoroughly think about how we approach this, and are also paying close attention to how the community feels as well as involving the design team. It's clearly a very polarizing topic and this is slightly new territory, and what we do will set a precedent. As the manager of the team who handles our partnerships with third party developers, I just wanted to drop by the thread and let everyone know this was something that was indeed on our radar. We've seen a lot of threads about this in recent days and I felt it was important to make sure you guys knew we were aware of it's importance to you, even though we've not developed a policy around it yet.
Been waiting for this post, THANK YOU!


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CupcakeTrap

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Senior Member

03-13-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noxe Out View Post
That gives you an edge.Shouldn't you be getting better yourself? Practicing timing buffs? You just basically said I'm not good enough to time buffs so now I use this addon to make me better.
I agree with you that the current situation that some people have Curse Voice and thereby gain an advantage over those who don't is a problem. If there were a petition to ban Curse Voice, I'd probably sign it.

That said, I want to point out a related argument where I think we disagree.

My position, in short, is that higher skillcap is not necessarily better.

"Denying" definitely raises skillcap. If Riot put denying into LoL, LoL would become a higher skillcap game. I think this is beyond debate. What's not beyond debate, IMO, is whether or not this would be a good thing.

Smart pings lower skillcap. If you have to take your hands off QWER to type "mia", then calling mias is more costly. This means that your allies' independent map awareness skills are more important, and it also means that you must think more carefully about whether to call a mia (because doing so might mean missing a last-hit or losing a trade). But I don't think manual mias added interesting skillcap, so I'm glad we have smart pings.

There are all kinds of ways you can raise a game's skillcap. Some are good, some are bad, and some are debatable (depending on the kind of game you want). In a game like LoL, realistically, nobody is ever going to completely "master" everything, and so lowering skillcap in one area means people are measured more on how they perform in other areas.

Some trivial examples of what I think we'd all agree would be bad mechanisms (that would raise the skillcap, but in a stupid way):
  • You have two autoattack buttons, one for Autoattack A and one for Autoattack B. Minions flash A and B alternately, and are only vulnerable to the type they currently display.
  • Allied messages are sent in code, concealed by a substitution cipher (e.g. A becomes C, B becomes D). You must crack the code to read your allies' messages.
  • Smite does not take effect until you complete a two-question geography quiz.

The real question is not whether a mechanic raises skillcap, but whether it raises skillcap in an interesting way.

While I think there's room for reasonable people to disagree, I'm personally not convinced that manual buff timing raises skillcap in an interesting way. I've gotten a lot better at quickly adding 5/6/7 to arbitrary timestamps, and at scrolling through the chat window to find dragon kill messages. This hasn't really been an exciting highlight of my LoL gaming experience.


tl;dr: I think that either Curse Voice should be banned or that its functionality should become part of the basic LoL client (for example, if your team has vision of dragon being slain, then at some point your team should get an automatic chat message saying "Dragon will respawn at 16:04!").


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Airheart

Member

03-13-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by oconnomobot1 View Post
Except all you would need to calculate last hits perfectly IS available to you. Click on a minion. It gives you their exact HP, MR, and armor. Click on yourself. You now have all the information you could possibly need to know how many hits it would take to kill a minion.
The issue is this information will change constantly and it takes skill to adjust to those changes. A lot goes into last hitting. Champion choice, game length, game type, item choices, range of autos, projectile speed. It's a heavily calculated player choice of when to auto a minion. How do I time drag again. Oh yeah view the time stamp and add 6. It's a binary option and anyone, even players who don't play the game can time when the dragon and Baron respawns. The issue is whether or not the knowledge is meant to be hidden. My stance is riot should just add the timers they already use when spectating pro games into the game for teams that have vision but I don't have a problem with people using a third party program to use it the same way I don't look at people who time taking a test with a watch and go cheater its obvious the professor wanted all of us to have to look at the clock in the back of the class and manually add up how long of our hour we had left.


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StickZi

Member

03-13-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blunts4Brekfast View Post
yeah, comparing less keystrokes to less keystrokes is crazy! so illogical!


especially when the other 9 people are at a disadvantage since they still have to do all the keystrokes.

logic101 is right....
Now, please read red post above, carefully, THEN decide if you want to compare objective timers to auto-last-hitting ever again.