Rengar Rework Strikes Back

First Riot Post
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lm Krueger ml

Senior Member

03-13-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot Jag View Post
Some updates:

-We're trying a version of Rengar with his max ferocity stacks back to 5, and they no longer decay out of combat.
-By adding the required build up to his Ferocity-empowered moves, we could add a little power back to his Ferocity Q and gave it some solid steroids (bonus attack speed and AD for a duration) so his sustained damage is stronger.
-Scruffy has done some work to ensure you'll be seeing Rengar on PBE quite soon. Tonight we hunt?

I was maybe a little harsh in my last post, I can see you're trying to experiment to see if you can bring back the preparation style gameplay that a lot of people love about Rengar. And totally fair play, its one of his defining features. I won't make too much fuss about how bad his flow is until I try it out in game.

On the other hand. Your line about, "By adding the required build up to his Ferocity-empowered moves, we could add a little power back to his Ferocity Q". This irritates me a little tbh. Why does it only affect the power of his Ferocity Q?

All of his Empowered abilities should be EQUAL power. Or better yet they should all have unique strengths based on the situation. Their power should fluctuate as the fight develops. This is why his Empowered mechanic is so fun, it forces you to actually work out in the spur of the moment which ability is the best for that specific time. They should all have an equal power budget however, and telling me you can now afford to buff one of them and not the others means you're not considering them as equal entities.

This is a fundamental flaw in thinking that will definitely lead to disaster.


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NA Darklarik

Senior Member

03-13-2014

Riot Jag or Scruffy, please see if you have the time to answer the following questions:

Quote:
Originally Posted by NA Darklarik;
Will his Stealth still have a delay activation if he is dealt damage? Considering he no longer gets mov speed on it and the fact that anyone can have a ready to use Oracle at lv 9 (which would preety much nulify his stealth for the entire duration) it would seem like a reasonable buff to his ultimate, especially considering that Oracles in on a shorter Cooldown than his ult (speaking of cooldown, that is another point where id prefer a buff).
Quote:
Originally Posted by NA Darklarik View Post
Really like the Rengar's bola reveling targets momentarily. WOuld really help the jungle.
Also. Scruffy, this is something i would like if you could explain: Why is rengar having such an internal development rework as oppose to Xerath or Skarner?
Im sure you guys have a valid reason, but i really would like if you could explain it. Give some context as to why Rengar isnt in the PBE already, even for a prolonged period of time. I try not to doubt Riot's decision making, but this one in particular is frustrating, since Rengar my second favorite champion and all these other champions like Heim, Xerath, Skarner got to see PBE time while Rengar hasent, i feel like its slowing down the process, and that things would go smoother if he were on pbe. But what do i know, thats why i would appreciate an explanation.
Also, my concern with the latest batch of changes is that it dosent look tooooo different from the live model. Yah his E is a skill shot and his R has had a few changes, his overall gameplay seems the same. Will wait to try out.

Btw would making his W decrease struck enemies AD (like Tryn's W) be possible instead of giving defensive stats?


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NA Darklarik

Senior Member

03-13-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amalek View Post
Says the guy posting from a level 7 account. Yeah, lot of credentials for you bud. How about instead of being like every other repetitive tard that exists in this gaming community, try a comeback with some merit.
Im plat on my main buddy. I have this account only to partake in forum discussions since NA is where all the fun talk is at.

I played Rengar since he was on the PBE, bought him on release and still do quite play with him a lot. I know what im saying when i type.

Also, your post was just a flat senseless bronze rant. It is in no way constructive, just biased and poorly thought out. Im actually asking questions about legitimate concerns, and giving suggestions on what i would like to see changed. Thats called constructive criticism and feedback, not crying because my Main champion is gonna get changed into something i dont like nor understand.


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CrystalScarreh

Junior Member

03-13-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by l Xynorph l View Post
I think it would be interesting if empowered abilities, instead of mimicking a spell, gave him a entirely different skill. some things i thought of were things like making it so empowered E could make him go all Volibear charge on them or just more MS. or his w healing and stealthing him for like 1 second plus .25 per rank. or you could make his q give him a bleed effect.

these are just some ideas to give you an idea, and they are not something i would expect you to add, especially since you are already so far into this project.

just some ideas :P
That W idea is probably one of the most amazing things ever, except when you stack up Rengar's ferocity you have a choice.

Q - Obviously one of the most picked. Simple, just way more damage.
W - Rengar's sustain in lane. He will spam his abilities to heal.
E - Setting up kills for other people when you can't.

If your ideas went into play, it would be almost like a mini-ult every five abilities, and would draw the line between the good Rengar players and the not-so-good. (his w would be really op though, considering it'd give him a leap and another escape.) Actually, you could almost extend his ultimate by 4.5 seconds by using your 5 ferocity for your w, ulting, waiting for 5 again, and then using it by the end of his ult. My god... the plays.


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Riot Jag

Associate Technical Design

03-13-2014
41 of 48 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by lm Krueger ml View Post
All of his Empowered abilities should be EQUAL power. Or better yet they should all have unique strengths based on the situation. Their power should fluctuate as the fight develops. This is why his Empowered mechanic is so fun, it forces you to actually work out in the spur of the moment which ability is the best for that specific time. They should all have an equal power budget however, and telling me you can now afford to buff one of them and not the others means you're not considering them as equal entities.
The goal is that for all Empowered abilities, there are unique situations where it is clearly the optimal choice over the other two. We added power to the Empowered Q because it was underwhelming in comparison to the other Ferocity options and failing this goal; we are not buffing it because we want to make it excessively strong.


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Super Explosion

Senior Member

03-13-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot Jag View Post
we are not buffing it because we want to make it excessively strong.
Although mind you Riot may have a tendency to do this sort of thing with skills-- making one leveling path almost always perhaps fully optimal in every situation.


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NA Darklarik

Senior Member

03-13-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot Jag View Post
The goal is that for all Empowered abilities, there are unique situations where it is clearly the optimal choice over the other two. We added power to the Empowered Q because it was underwhelming in comparison to the other Ferocity options and failing this goal; we are not buffing it because we want to make it excessively strong.
please tell me you gave his Fer Q and regular Q an ad scaling at least.


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lm Krueger ml

Senior Member

03-13-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot Jag View Post
The goal is that for all Empowered abilities, there are unique situations where it is clearly the optimal choice over the other two. We added power to the Empowered Q because it was underwhelming in comparison to the other Ferocity options and failing this goal; we are not buffing it because we want to make it excessively strong.

Ok you get away with it then

Sorry for jumping the gun!


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Messaiga

Senior Member

03-13-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot Jag View Post
Some updates:

-We're trying a version of Rengar with his max ferocity stacks back to 5, and they no longer decay out of combat.
-By adding the required build up to his Ferocity-empowered moves, we could add a little power back to his Ferocity Q and gave it some solid steroids (bonus attack speed and AD for a duration) so his sustained damage is stronger.
-Scruffy has done some work to ensure you'll be seeing Rengar on PBE quite soon. Tonight we hunt?
Definitely nothing suspicious about that last sentence, nope. On another topic, I think that these changes are good for Rengar when he is jungling. ATM I play Rengar in the jungle whenever I play him, top lane is far too tanky for his liking in my opinion. In the jungle I easily get farm and because he can still stack his ferocity and keep it for a gank I imagine a gank going something like this (jumps to a minion from brush, E's a champion and runs toward it for movespeed buff, uses Q and W when in range). Sounds good to me.


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MajorPain9

Senior Member

03-13-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot Jag View Post
The goal is that for all Empowered abilities, there are unique situations where it is clearly the optimal choice over the other two. We added power to the Empowered Q because it was underwhelming in comparison to the other Ferocity options and failing this goal; we are not buffing it because we want to make it excessively strong.
FIX THE DAMN SCORPION!!!!

Or at least give it to another designer. FFS why even rework him if you are not going to follow through.