Let's talk about the Design of Team Builder

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Goth Skunk

Senior Member

03-10-2014

My opinions thus far:

- Team builder is fantastic when wishing to try out a new champion in a new role, or to play a specific champion when the mood strikes.

- Eliminates fighting over roles and lanes in the champion select lobby. By pre-selecting a champion and role/position before entering the queue, tons of potential aggravation is spared. This does result in a longer queue time, but honestly I would rather spend ten minutes in a queue to play a champion and role I want than play a 30-40 minute game on a champion/role I don't want.

- Because of the above point, the attitudes of people I play with are noticeably more positive.

- It seems unfair to me that the Team Captain gets punished with longer 'looking for teammates' time if other teammates voluntarily withdraw from the team builder lobby. However I am in favour of longer times if the Team Captain is the one doing the kicking.

- Team Builder itself does not enforce a certain meta, the players using it do. I've only once tried captaining a full Pick-Up Team, but I tried it with a top, mid, marksman, and two junglers. I could not get 5 people interested to try it out after 15 minutes. Some people seemed willing to give it a shot, but others would come into the team, see the double-jungle comp, and immediately back out because it wasn't standard meta. Those that expressed an interest to give it a try quickly lost patience and bailed after 3 minutes on average. This is not a fault of Team Builder, but of players not willing to expand their comfort zone.

- The wait times to match teams up against teams are virtually non-existant (At least, at my skill level).

- I dislike not being able to pull up champion bios in team builder. Example: I'm in the lobby. There's me and 2 other summoners. We're waiting on a 4th and 5th. The 3rd summoner has selected Viktor. I haven't seen a Viktor played in a long time, so I tried to click on his icon to pull up Viktor's bio, lore, abilities and tips. I couldn't do it. To me, that's a function that should be present.

- People ought to be able to change their champion in the lobby if doing so would improve team composition.

- When captaining a team and waiting to find players, I often go browsing the internet while I wait. Team Builder should 'Pop to Front' when a new summoner is found, I think.



Overall, it's been a positive experience and I sincerely hope it becomes part of the permanent game mode offerings.


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Banana Strength

Junior Member

03-10-2014

I support Team Builder. You login, pick a champion, and a role of your choice. and thats it. you're ready to play a game that you want to be a part of in minutes.


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RedTube Madness

Member

03-10-2014

wow riot you guys are so slow on these things
I had the SAME FREAKING IDEA back in 2012 and I wrote some **** to you guys but no **** was given


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Lyte

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Lead Social Systems Designer

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03-10-2014
37 of 54 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by noooooooo View Post
So, I just queued up and for giggles I made my role mid mage, and the rest of the roles for party building mid mage.

I got 4 other brave souls and we played mid, 2 of them split off to top and bottom because the comp we got paired with was a standard meta.

We won under 20 minutes with a legendary katarina to boot.


So is this team builder supposed to just build teams, not match comps? Can you do your 5 top tanks and get put up against a comp that just wants to play meta and then have a less than ideal game? I guess it sets you up to see how your comp fares against meta, or meta fairs against whatever crazy strat you got going.
Isn't that one of the more interesting theories that we can test in Team Builder?

How does Kill-Lane Bot do vs Standard Meta? How about a custom split-push strategy where you do 3-Top, 1 Mid, 1 Bot? In Team Builder, we can have legendary match-ups and really see which strategies rise to the top

Think about the matrix of data that we can get from Team Builder... every comp against every comp and their win%s... it makes me smile just thinking about it.


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noooooooo

Junior Member

03-10-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
Isn't that one of the more interesting theories that we can test in Team Builder?

How does Kill-Lane Bot do vs Standard Meta? How about a custom split-push strategy where you do 3-Top, 1 Mid, 1 Bot? In Team Builder, we can have legendary match-ups and really see which strategies rise to the top

Think about the matrix of data that we can get from Team Builder... every comp against every comp and their win%s... it makes me smile just thinking about it.

It makes me smile too, just the wait to find 5 top tanks willing to boldly carry out the assault on the terrible top tower is proving to be tedious.


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Laerx

Junior Member

03-10-2014

I don't think teambuilder takes MMR into account. Is this intended? I understand the format is built to match roles and champions over similar ratings but getting paired with players who actually don't know what "cs" means doesn't make the game any fun, either.


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HumdingeRll

Senior Member

03-10-2014

The power of having no toxicity.... Get in, and if you dont like the champ that joins, kick until you find a good team. Thats the way it should be.


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LEQCtemmerde

Junior Member

03-10-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
Hey everyone,

Make sure to thank the following Rioters for their help in getting Team Builder this far! Itís been my honor to work with these Rioters on this project.

btab, ceciliaicy, davin, DoctahWayne, Drevarius, Fr3nchT0ast, Goggalor, MissMechaZero, RiotBahamut, RiotBlackrook, RiotComplex, RiotExLibris, RiotId, RiotJayway, RiotLobster, RiotLulu, RiotMartlet, RiotNeuroCat, RiotNoyz, RiotSeb, RiotTantram, RiotWorldPeace, Ryedan, scezumin, statuskwoh, stochasticmx, VonBurgermeister, Yegg and Yupster.
Why should i thank someone... Still waiting for that ****ing team builder wich was supposed to fix the ACTUAL queues.. not give us a new one.. dafuq...


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Lyte

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Lead Social Systems Designer

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03-10-2014
38 of 54 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goth Skunk View Post
- It seems unfair to me that the Team Captain gets punished with longer 'looking for teammates' time if other teammates voluntarily withdraw from the team builder lobby. However I am in favour of longer times if the Team Captain is the one doing the kicking.
Hm, are you seeing Captains being penalized for players voluntarily leaving a team? In Team Builder you should only be penalized for actions that you commit, so this shouldn't be happening. Basically, every action in Team Builder has a positive or negative valence, and if you commit a lot of positive actions you will get benefits in Team Builder. If you commit a lot of negative actions, you'll get penalized with cool-downs or queue restrictions.

There's nothing in the system where you get penalized because of someone else's actions.

Quote:
- Team Builder itself does not enforce a certain meta, the players using it do. I've only once tried captaining a full Pick-Up Team, but I tried it with a top, mid, marksman, and two junglers. I could not get 5 people interested to try it out after 15 minutes. Some people seemed willing to give it a shot, but others would come into the team, see the double-jungle comp, and immediately back out because it wasn't standard meta. Those that expressed an interest to give it a try quickly lost patience and bailed after 3 minutes on average. This is not a fault of Team Builder, but of players not willing to expand their comfort zone.
What we've seen is that this changes with time. We're already seeing more creative team comps now than 6 hours ago, and as more and more players check out the system and get familiar with it, they'll start wanting to try out different things and explore the possible comps a system like this can help build.

Quote:
- I dislike not being able to pull up champion bios in team builder. Example: I'm in the lobby. There's me and 2 other summoners. We're waiting on a 4th and 5th. The 3rd summoner has selected Viktor. I haven't seen a Viktor played in a long time, so I tried to click on his icon to pull up Viktor's bio, lore, abilities and tips. I couldn't do it. To me, that's a function that should be present.
We were torn about this, and weren't sure if we needed to fully implement it before doing a Live Beta. We ultimately decided that it was worth doing a Live Beta first without finishing this feature, but if it's a highly demanded feature we might swing back and do some work on it.

Quote:
- People ought to be able to change their champion in the lobby if doing so would improve team composition.
We did a lot of early prototype testing where we did test various ways to allow champion changing. For example, a team vote on a champion change, a captain "approval" of a champion change, or even just freely being able to change champions. During the testing, we found a couple downsides that really made us re-think the features and put them on the backburner for now.

For example, the features really hurt champion diversity. Instead of players waiting longer in queue and getting to play a champion in an unorthodox role, they'd often be accepted into teams and then asked to change their champion--after going through the experience a few times, you can imagine how many players just gave up trying to play these creative roles over time. Right now, we're seeing Bottom-LeBlanc-Support and Talon-Jungles and other neat specs being quite accepted in Team Builder, and we might not have seen that develop if we went with champion changes in the lobby.


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KJ Riot

Member

03-10-2014

I pray this becomes official, and is used in ranked, so good, was doing it on a friends account, way funner and easy going, even when you lose.