Let's talk about the Design of Team Builder

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SheepSayBaah

Junior Member

03-07-2014

yes


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ForumPostingAcco

Senior Member

03-07-2014

"so that we can roll out a smarter matchmaking system that can dynamically account for your experience with a given role, position or champion. First time playing Ahri? Learning Marksman for the first time? Team Builder's matchmaking will take all these factors into account to make sure you have a great experience."

I just want to comment on this.

Currently, my ranked MMR is Silver, and my blind pick MMR is Bronze V. My blind pick MMR is SO bad that I could pretty much pick any champion and build anything and still win most of the time. I pretty much HAVE to practice new champs and roles in ranked, just to see how well I do against people that are actually at my skill level.

So if you released a new teambuilder queue, and I tryhard and get my teambuilder MMR to be on par with my ranked MMR... I still won't be able to practice new stuff against people of my skill level if you make it detect that I'm trying something new, and put me against bad players. Or, I might forget that it even does this, and be like "wow I am an AMAZING Ahri mid", and then take her into ranked and go 0/20.


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Lyte

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Lead Social Systems Designer

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03-07-2014
19 of 54 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by ForumPostingAcco View Post
"so that we can roll out a smarter matchmaking system that can dynamically account for your experience with a given role, position or champion. First time playing Ahri? Learning Marksman for the first time? Team Builder's matchmaking will take all these factors into account to make sure you have a great experience."

I just want to comment on this.

Currently, my ranked MMR is Silver, and my blind pick MMR is Bronze V. My blind pick MMR is SO bad that I could pretty much pick any champion and build anything and still win most of the time. I pretty much HAVE to practice new champs and roles in ranked, just to see how well I do against people that are actually at my skill level.

So if you released a new teambuilder queue, and I tryhard and get my teambuilder MMR to be on par with my ranked MMR... I still won't be able to practice new stuff against people of my skill level if you make it detect that I'm trying something new, and put me against bad players. Or, I might forget that it even does this, and be like "wow I am an AMAZING Ahri mid", and then take her into ranked and go 0/20.
That's not how the system would work.

Note, I'm going to use some fake numbers because they don't actually matter as they'll vary from player to player.

Let's say you're an 1800 MMR Ahri-Mid specialist; however, when you try something new such as Kassadin-Mid, you might face 1780 MMR opponents instead of 1800, because the system tries to gauge how skilled you are at Kassadin-Mid relative to Ahri-Mid.

If you try something completely new such as Caitlyn-Bottom, something you've never tried before, then maybe the system tries to put you against 1700 MMR opponents and sees how you perform then adjusts according to your matches.


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ForumPostingAcco

Senior Member

03-07-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
If you try something completely new such as Caitlyn-Bottom, something you've never tried before, then maybe the system tries to put you against 1700 MMR opponents and sees how you perform then adjusts according to your matches.
If I keep losing with Caitlyn bottom, but winning with Ahri mid (let's say at a rate that my normal blind pick MMR would stay at 1800 even with all the Caitlyn losses), how low will my "Caitlyn bottom MMR" go with teambuilder?

If I play one Caitlyn game out of every 10 games, and lose every single time, and then after about 15-20 losses I start winning... But my Ahri MMR is still 1800 or more, while my Caitlyn MMR has dropped to 1400 or even 1200, then when I start winning with Cait.... It's going to give me a false sense that I'm better with her, and I'm not.

EDIT: I'm basically asking, if it "adjusts according to my matches", how far will it let my Caitlyn MMR wander from my Ahri MMR? Is there a limit?


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Corvic Maractis

Senior Member

03-08-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
That's not how the system would work.

Note, I'm going to use some fake numbers because they don't actually matter as they'll vary from player to player.

Let's say you're an 1800 MMR Ahri-Mid specialist; however, when you try something new such as Kassadin-Mid, you might face 1780 MMR opponents instead of 1800, because the system tries to gauge how skilled you are at Kassadin-Mid relative to Ahri-Mid.

If you try something completely new such as Caitlyn-Bottom, something you've never tried before, then maybe the system tries to put you against 1700 MMR opponents and sees how you perform then adjusts according to your matches.
Would my earlier suggestion to give you an mmr based off of the Prime World MMR be out of the question? (this is how I believe Prime World does there MMR minus the champion level and runes/ abilities)


In Prime world you have multiple MMR numbers. First you have your MMR based on The Character which goes up from just playing and winning as that champ. Second you have one based on your Win/loss, wherein win/loss is all that matters. Finally you have your Based on Games played MMR, this is entirely determined by the total games you have played so its a gauge of champion knowledge.

These are all added and weighed against one another in a Champ MMR > Win/loss MMR > Games Played MMR. this way Champ MMR has more weight than win/loss, and win/loss has more weight than Games played MMR.


Would this be too out of the question/extreme?


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LTR Redemption

Member

03-08-2014

So when is teambuilder comming on NA ? , Seems like its been on TR And EUW For like 5 days


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HellsWarGod

Junior Member

03-08-2014

Honestly didn't read through all the posts, but a suggestion for Teambuilder, I would think that for ranked ques you could have them just choose the role they want to play so that it does not affect the ban proccess. Everyone I know that plays ranked and likes specific positions usually have more than 5 champions for that position, if that makes sense.


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JPM1993

Member

03-08-2014

"Early Next Week" Can there be a actually ETA Riot? Seems NA and all other regions after EUW are getting a cold shoulder.


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PerformingCircus

Senior Member

03-08-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by HellsWarGod View Post
Honestly didn't read through all the posts, but a suggestion for Teambuilder, I would think that for ranked ques you could have them just choose the role they want to play so that it does not affect the ban proccess. Everyone I know that plays ranked and likes specific positions usually have more than 5 champions for that position, if that makes sense.
I really like this idea. It's the only way I see it working. I mean, players could still adjust, but at least they would know what roles they're playing.

Also, I think riot is trying to do away with the CCS for this mode period. But I could be wrong.


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Master Paven

Junior Member

03-08-2014

When will NA servers be able to try out the new team builder seems like EUW and TR have had quite a bit of time.... Just wondering.