Skarner Rework Follow Through

First Riot Post
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JaxMoonStealer

Senior Member

03-03-2014

WHERE THE HELL ARE YOU SCRUFFY. You only answer everything except the stuff regarding Skarner.


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RiotScruffy

Game Designer

03-03-2014
23 of 29 Riot Posts

Hey all, were still monitoring Skarner and seeing how much effect the 4.3 changes had (looks like a good amount so far). Expect more changes in upcoming patches if he is not powerful enough.


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Maelstrom51

Member

03-03-2014

You know, we weren't really concerned with numbers. We wanted changes that brought back some of how Skarner used to play.

Buffing Skarner's numbers until he is viable is exactly what we didn't want.


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wapster

Senior Member

03-03-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
Hey all, were still monitoring Skarner and seeing how much effect the 4.3 changes had (looks like a good amount so far). Expect more changes in upcoming patches if he is not powerful enough.
While the buffs were in the right direction, Skarner really suffers from kit and mechanical problems, rather than numbers. He lacks an identity, playstyle, and role. His kit just doesn't synergize with itself in any situation.

I'm glad that you're still here, though.


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Shahamut

Senior Member

03-03-2014

Scruffy, have you read any of my replies?

I almost lost a straight up 1v1 duel vs a jax who was 3 levels lower than me... 3 levels, and I had a huge gold advantage.

On a positive note: I was playing him in top lane, so its not completely undoable.

For real though, the extra slow amount, though nice, still only lasts for 2.5 seconds. With a high cooldown, the slow doesn't keep them their for a meaningful amount of time.

I can be ok with this, but it will need to come with some damage ups so that my shorter time on them is more meaningful and less laughable.

The ramp up speed either needs a serious ramp up or it needs to go. Its infinitely inferior to say, Hecaraim's ramp up speed (25%- 75% in 3 seconds at all ranks) and is tied to his shield. Leaving it at its new values and making it instant would be a HUGE improvement.

Are there any changes in the works we can expect to see in the next update?

Are you guys currently even thinking about any changes?

Whats going on other than, "We're watching" and "It looks good?" Because although he isn't completely lost yet, he is far from viable in the competitive scene.


Also, have you thought about doing something with the E that would help him in brawls? Something like, lowering the slow, but having it affect both AS and MS? lasting a whole 5 seconds with the mark and having the 1 second stun option for consuming the mark?

I have lots of questions and ideas, and I don't know if riot has a policy against getting ideas from the community, but Im sharing them none the less.

Understand scruffy that I am active on these forums cuz I really like this champion and want to see him shine. All I want to do is help.


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Shahamut

Senior Member

03-03-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maelstrom51 View Post
You know, we weren't really concerned with numbers. We wanted changes that brought back some of how Skarner used to play.

Buffing Skarner's numbers until he is viable is exactly what we didn't want.

From personal experience, I can tell you that skarner still plays the same way. (strategy wise). People have been mistaken thinking they need to use both E and W to close gap. You didn't need a ranged slow before? Why would you now?

To be sure, the silly ramp up speed has made it much much more difficult, but you have to save your E for after your initial engagement. Then you actually can get a few attacks off.

Am I saying he sticks like old skarner? No. Is the new skarner EVER gonna stick like old skarner? No. That is the whole part of his kit they deemed unworthy, (as far as consistent slow is concerned) so that aspect will not come back.

This is why I am moving for trying to meet Riot half way here and ask for improvements on the current kit. Things like:

1) Attack speed buff stacks falling off 1 at a time.
2) Auto attacks refresh duration of AS buff. (now useful vs towers)
3) Can we get some actual sustain back in the kit? Like regen on shield?
4) The mark from E is still there, but the damage is so low that its useless unless the enemy or you is/are running. Using the mark to proc a 1 second stun (justifying the long cooldown) would make his kit work together in a brawl and also aid in his ganks.


Things like this. We will get no where begging for what we cannot have, and more than anything, I want skarner to be feared when he enters the arena. I want to see him in competitive play. So lets work together. Im done complaining about it, lets see how we can make it work.


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Siigari

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Senior Member

03-03-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
Hey all, were still monitoring Skarner and seeing how much effect the 4.3 changes had (looks like a good amount so far). Expect more changes in upcoming patches if he is not powerful enough.
I don't understand.

You say you're monitoring Skarner. What have you seen so far?

Then you say expect more changes IF he is not powerful enough.

Why are you throwing conditional PR bull**** at us? Why don't you just tell us how it is? We can all go on any site and see his pickrate and winrate are abysmal and we have been chomping at the bit for information/details/interaction AND YOU GIVE NONE.

BAD SCRUFFY.


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Bombkirby

Senior Member

03-03-2014

The ramp-up needs to go or it needs to be boosted. Hecarim's ramp-up makes sense. You cannot counter it at all, so the ramp-up provides some sort of weakness to the spell. Skarner's already can be counter by blowing up the shield. The ramp up on top of that is too much. It gives people more than enough to time to remove the shield and all of it's bonuses. I think if you need to target something for buffs, target that.

The slow would be great if it was more reapplicable. I thought you guys were trying to make his slow into a skillshot so there was counterplay FOR the permaslow. It is no longer a permaslow so it doesn't really need such absurd counterplay. High CD + Skillshot that is easily dodged all for a dinky slow. This isn't Blitz's hook, it's just a slow. It doesn't need so many negative drawbacks to it.

His ult's fine. Q is acceptable.


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Bombkirby

Senior Member

03-03-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Siigari View Post
I don't understand.

You say you're monitoring Skarner. What have you seen so far?

Then you say expect more changes IF he is not powerful enough.

Why are you throwing conditional PR bull**** at us? Why don't you just tell us how it is? We can all go on any site and see his pickrate and winrate are abysmal and we have been chomping at the bit for information/details/interaction AND YOU GIVE NONE.

BAD SCRUFFY.
Riot and every other company that monitors balance has direct win percentages, damage taken, damage dealt, KDA, etc etc for ever champion or so. IF this data shows he's not up to par, they'll buff him again. The end.


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Locke64

Senior Member

03-03-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
Hey all, were still monitoring Skarner and seeing how much effect the 4.3 changes had (looks like a good amount so far). Expect more changes in upcoming patches if he is not powerful enough.
Yes, you've solved his mana issues. Now on to the fundamental dissonance of his kit.

Are you still considering having the mark apply a second slow? Increasing the slow % is like hitting a nail with a sledgehammer when what you need is several staples.