Why LSI Lolnexus Lolking etc. are bad for League

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Alphazonex

Senior Member

02-28-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlazingSalvo View Post
Looking up runes and masteries (i.e. Hidden Power) is actually how I've won a lot of games. It's really easy to go aggressive on a 21 offense champ, and I would hesitate to dive a 21+ defense champ. Being able to see whether my opponent has lifesteal quints or not influences which dorans or flask I buy.

I get to see if the enemy mid is running flat mr, scaling mr, or ap/level blues before I decide to start dorans or flask.

Heck, if my opponent was top as a 21/0/9 or otherwise risky setup I'd seriously contemplate starting red pot. Also changes kill potential as a jungler. I'll easily gank that 21/9 Renekton over and over knowing he's both squishy and also lacks perseverance mastery.

I've won many lanes myself cheesing with 30 offense, or running armor quints on 9/21 Viktor and beating Talon/Pantheon, or going full utility Movespeed Malzahar last season and building 40 cdr and crazy mp5 by 10 minutes and being a god. All things that wouldn't work as effectively if the opponent checked my cheese runes.
This is the problem I have with it. Masteries and Rune set ups aren't something you can normally see in game against the lane opponent. Being able to look it up is feels unfair. The enemy laner is gaining information on you and now knows whether or not that can all in you or if they shouldn't bother. Any cool tactic you came up with using a particular rune set up + Mastery page is now foiled because the other player is able to view what you're running.


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Aerothal

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Senior Member

02-28-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot Reboot View Post
2) How big of an issue are we talking about? Are sites contributing to a bad experience every single game, at every single tier, or are we talking about an isolated portion of the population, or something in between? My logic here is that if it's a small portion of the population having a negative experience, we may think about it differently than if it's a massive issue.
Coming back to this. I hope you are too.

I am speaking for myself but in the last year, i dont think there has been a single game i played where no one on my team looked up info.
I don't think it is isolated at all.
And I am not insinuating that looking up stats always makes for a bad experience.
But it makes for an advantage over the player/team that does not do it.
As so many have stated before, if Runes/Masteries info isn't readily available in game for all to check, why should it be on 3rd party sites?


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LudicSavant7

Senior Member

02-28-2014

The problem is less with statistical tracking and more with the fact that the vast majority of people have no idea how to properly interpret statistical data (but think that they do), leading to wildly inaccurate misinterpretations and conclusions.


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Thryale

Senior Member

02-28-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Renegade Talon View Post
Thats not a problem the sites have no real effect on what happens in game. Math can tell you most of what the site tells you about their runes and masteries. Me knowing im facing a diamond player helps me a ton. I dont see how it hinders him to not know im silver.
There may be no in game advantage, but the psychological advantage is huge. Simply knowing what they have and what they may or may not do can greatly affect one's own mental confidence and sway the tides of battle in a situation where not having such mental fortitude would have cost you.

Also, using such third party systems to gain any advantage/ percieved advantage is tantamount to cheating.


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BlazingSalvo

Senior Member

02-28-2014

If you walk into lane against a 32 MR Renekton or riven, it's not immediately (or ever) apparent they're running scaling mr or cdr blues.
If you walk into lane against an AD and they have 72 AD with a Doran, it's not immediately (or ever) apparent they're running lifesteal, armor pen, or a mix of other runes.
If you enter lane against an AP, it's not immediately (or ever) apparent if they're running magic pen or hybrid pen reds.

And we nerf things into the ground based on "Hidden Power."

You can guess what someone is based on the visible spellweaving buffs, movespeed, or changing armor. However you can never tell if they took double edged, havoc, executioner, percent pen, etc.

I run full xPeke-style AP/lvl yellows and blues on Viktor and have 130 AP at level 6 with Augment. You can't know that from my 30 level 1 AP.


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Farranor

Senior Member

02-28-2014

I think the biggest benefit provided by third party sites with publicly-available data is the ability to see whether you've been grouped with people who go (for example) TP/Revive Rammus with Mobi boots and five Zeals and end 0/30. I'd like to have a basic idea of whom I'll be playing with before I'm locked into finishing a match with them.


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Teraxe

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Senior Member

02-28-2014

Being able to see the rank of the people you are matched with is the last indicator of the effectiveness of matchmaking, I expect Riot would want to remove this so we can be completely in the dark.

BTW, all the arguments to remove this knowledge are the same as making Elo hidden. Basically the player base would rather be ignorant.


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h 2

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Senior Member

02-28-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by jBox2D View Post
I agree. I always used to get scared and play worse when I saw the word "favored" over my enemy on SC2. I started putting a piece of paper over that part of the screen when I played, and noticed that I won significantly more "enemy favored" matches than I did before.
well played mister necromancer, this thread is old and smells like dead guy


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Riot Reboot

Business Intelligence Manager

02-28-2014
2 of 2 Riot Posts

Interesting stuff. I'm currently neutral on these sites, but working on the Analytics team here, we're always interested in what the community considers good/bad/fair/unfair use of data.

One of the most common arguments so far is that looking up the information confers an advantage. Packed into this argument is the assumption that the knowledge gained is used appropriately - we can also imagine situations where someone sees a 21-0-9 on the opposing laner and assumes they can play aggressively, but they don't have the mechanics for such a playstyle and actually end up dead.

So follow-up question for GD - does every person who looks up information change their playstyle? If so, do they play better? And if not, can you still argue that the site is actually an advantage?


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Gareus

Senior Member

02-28-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot Reboot View Post
Interesting stuff. I'm currently neutral on these sites, but working on the Analytics team here, we're always interested in what the community considers good/bad/fair/unfair use of data.

One of the most common arguments so far is that looking up the information confers an advantage. Packed into this argument is the assumption that the knowledge gained is used appropriately - we can also imagine situations where someone sees a 21-0-9 on the opposing laner and assumes they can play aggressively, but they don't have the mechanics for such a playstyle and actually end up dead.

So follow-up question for GD - does every person who looks up information change their playstyle? If so, do they play better? And if not, can you still argue that the site is actually an advantage?
I have a follow up question to ask. I am a support main with a bit of ad and mid mixed in. When I call my role out I tend to show my stats to provide my team with a sense of security and in some ways to secure my role. Could you not also argue that these third party sites function almost as resumes of players skills so that teams can decide who is best equipped for a given situation?