I wonder how bad all the @Riot's want to tell us off.

First Riot Post
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øLordSeth

Senior Member

02-18-2014

/ignored


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Vesfynn

Junior Member

02-18-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by WizardCrab View Post
If only I could have every player follow us around for a day :/

Have you guys ever thought of actually doing that? I mean, we all like the great prizes you give out, but maybe... maybe offering guided tours of what you do and how you do it would help you connect more with your player base...?

On another note, when I started school two years ago (Animation Major) my biggest goal was to work for Riot when I was finished. Over the last two years I've seen a huge decrease in Rioter to Player communication. I see that in part it is the communities fault, I would hate to deal with this generally toxic community, but It also really started to discourage me against the company.
However today my faith is really being restored to see actual communication going on, real discussions, actual feedback. Thanks.
My love for this company has really gone up again. I'm glad you guys don't lose faith in us as quickly as we do in you. Keep it up. Maybe I'll get to be a part of this in a couple years.


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ShinRaigeki

Senior Member

02-18-2014

An interesting question for the WizardCrab

Wouldn't a 1-week a year (announced say a week in advance) sale of Skins like SGU or PFE that start on the day the skin was originally released work well enough for a 'sale' for these. Sort of like a scaled down version of what's recently happening with the season skins? You could probably even offer them for a smaller discount than the original, making the original sale something special much like how those who got the original Seasonal skins got those special icons/borders/etc?


@Morello:

I'll be back for you later when I got my thoughts together!


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vasheenomed

Senior Member

02-18-2014

I think I have actually avoided talking to you about my opinion on skins so far wizardcrab (although I doubt you remember me from other threads D

I absolutely love the amazing skins you guys come up with...the quality really has gone up and it shows imo....

one primary thing I think you guys need to keep in mind though is while 1350 skins are awesome, sometimes we LOVE the particles on a champion, but hate how the champion looks... that is where 1350 skins just don't fit.

like for example for me lucian.... I LOVE his spell effects sooooooo much.... but as far as gun slinging paladin concept goes he doesn't fit it perfectly enough... would love to see him with some kind of golden armor or something more paladin like while keeping his current light based attacks... I feel that stuff like this isn't done enough because the art team gets so concerned with making a "complete package...

it's really something they need to learn is sometimes we love particles on a champion..... just not how the champion looks/fits their concept

as far as recolors go my opinion is meh... I think it would be cool, I like the rainbow bundle idea... the main thing is making it work in champion select... if you did something like that I could see programming and ui changes needing to be done to make a rainbow color palette not be overwhelming when picking a skin


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WizardCrab

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02-18-2014
34 of 63 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Letkhar View Post
That's exactly my point. You said earlier that it would be optimal for you to skim, but surely you agree with me that in this case where there is practically 0 competition skimming would be a bad strategy?

You do price discriminate. You offer two different prices for the same product to two different people with different levels of demand. You attract people who WOULD buy the super-exciting-new-skin for a ONE-TIME LOW PRICE, and then you charge a higher price to people who come later and are willing to shell out more for the same product.

I'm not even mad about it. It's good business practice. I'm more perturbed by you trying to mislead people into thinking that it's bad business practice. It's not. You're good at your job and you should take pride in that.
I'm sorry, but this will likely be the last time I respond to you. You've clearly taken Econ, but you don't seem to remember it terribly well. Skimming is a strategy for highly differentiated products with low competition (like ours). Penetration pricing is good for less differentiated products with high competition (not ours). My example with PFE was that we didn't skim, but we should have if we wanted to maximize profits as it's a perfect example of an item you would skim with. Please please please pick up your textbook if you have any upcoming exams around this issue :/


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Bregan

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Senior Member

02-18-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by WizardCrab View Post
Disclaimer: I know nothing about the servers. The following does not represent anyone's views but my own!

As a thought experiment, assume we are investigating the server issues. If we're investigating it, what's the likelihood we know exactly what the problem is? What's an example of something satisfying we could message during this investigation period?

Again, just a thought experiment.
one thing that would actually be nice to hear is when its over and fixed/identified, we get told what it was. even something as vague as "memory leak" or "packet loss" or "fixed an exploit" or something. another good thing to hear would be dispelling rumors (assuming you actually did confirm them false) like "its not a ddos attack."


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Haha same YOLO

Senior Member

02-18-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokingPuffin View Post
Fair enough. Let me pivot to "man, would I not want to work at your company."

The reason I said it is because I have never met a businessperson who sounds like you do about business.



If you keep following this line of thinking, you'll conclude that "being nice" isn't possible. Not just for businesses, but for people. Almost every nice thing that people do has some ulterior motive. Even the quintessential example of altruism, giving money to charity, is usually done in part because it makes the giver feel good.

Back on the concrete example of Pulsefire Ezreal, I'm pretty sure that Riot wanted to price it lower because they wanted to widen the audience and get more people to enjoy their work as quickly as possible. It's natural for the creator of something cool to get value from showing off their creation and wanting people to like it.
Being nice for the sake of being nice is not possible. That's basic human nature. Being nice to keep clients, that's being nice with an ulterior motive. Being nice in friendship is at it's core to maintain a friendship. True altruism can't exist, but that's a philosophical debate.

You don't have to want to work with me. The employees we have are happy, we treat them well, our clients are very happy, we treat them well. But at the end of the day what we want is success of the business, nice is a means to an end. I love the people I work with, both internally and externally, and they're a major part of my life, but to say that I'm nice to them and there's NO REASON to be nice aside from being nice is silly. Altruism doesn't exist.

This is straying far from the conversation. Pricing PFE in such a way increased their revenues, and it's that simple.


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tailsmph

Senior Member

02-18-2014

I wish I was still naive enough to believe in PR
All this stuff about teamwork sounds wonderful
Back in my day, a champion could be released at 3150 IP and claiming that skins would start selling for 1350 RP was considered a joke


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Sirsir94

Senior Member

02-18-2014

26 Rito posts on a 22 page forum in a 6 hour period. Wow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rauron View Post
Skin prices have also gone up rather noticeably.
Because they don't release 'cheap' skins anymore. By which I mean recolors. Everything seems to have some sort of special effect. Recolors would probably be cheaper and help tone down the 'X champ only has one skin and Y champ is getting another one?!" Plus more money. Ofc that would just lead to a bunch of complaints about the quality of the skins but hey.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WizardCrab View Post
I can tell you that right now there are skins of all tiers (including 750) in the pipeline.
What about 450? I know I'm not very far into my Graphics class but since you already did the vast majority of the work (mostly designing the champion shape, but also things like UV mapping if thats the kind of engine you use) would make the recolors literally a one day skin. I don't know exactly what you use but I don't see how it could be THAT much harder...

Quote:
Originally Posted by WizardCrab View Post
There is an argument to be made for the overall feel of the game. A silly example:

Let's say we made a Hecarim skin that was just a brown cube and sold it for 1 RP. You get into the a game and one of the guys on your team is just a monochrome cube. OK, not the worst thing. Now imagine that 10% of all skins you see end up being simple 3D shapes because they're cheap. Now a friend, who has never played LoL, is watching over your shoulder. And he says "WTF are all these ****ty looking shape characters?" Now he doesn't want to play LoL.

Obviously recolors are not that bad but you can see a scenario where a lower quality skin can have a negative effect on perception of the game as a whole. I'm not saying recolors would cause this effect. But there's always a potential any skin could.

Maybe recolors are a worthwhile path for us. I haven't seen that data yet. We'll look into it.
Hate to join the pack of wolves but come on, you can do better than that. Comparing decent recolors to a bunch of geometric shapes is just plain stupid. And yes I get thats its a dramatization to make a point but the point isn't valid either. People see recolors and think 'man this gaem sux i don wanna play eet' makes no sense at all when there are already other options of the other kind. Meanwhile other people are thinking 'y r all theez skins so expensive i cat get one'. Personally my favorite Morde skin is Infernal and my favorite Malz skin is Prince. Recolors can be done well and with the proper color schemes can sometimes be more effective than the full 1350s

Plz keep in mind that anything that sounds argumentative (aside from the start of the last paragraph, that one kinda was) is not meant that way.


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Hourendous

Senior Member

02-18-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by WizardCrab View Post
I'm sorry, but this will likely be the last time I respond to you. You've clearly taken Econ, but you don't seem to remember it terribly well. Skimming is a strategy for highly differentiated products with low competition (like ours). Penetration pricing is good for less differentiated products with high competition (not ours). My example with PFE was that we didn't skim, but we should have if we wanted to maximize profits as it's a perfect example of an item you would skim with. Please please please pick up your textbook if you have any upcoming exams around this issue :/
Personally...the skin pricing is one of the thing is have no issues with at all honestly, they'll sell regardless, and people on the border can wait for a sale, or not buy, its as simple as that.

But overall, I have only 1 real complaint with Riot, and many little ones(but who doesn't have those about anything, see WHY is it, that when champions go on sale, its ONLY THE RP! theres no reason for IP to not go down either. No IP sale, gives incentives to people to spend RP/money to buy the champ instead of using IP, NOT saying that's why you did it, but that's exactly the effect its going to have regardless, I'd LOVE IP sales for champions along with their RP, IP is hard enough to come buy a sit is at times, for people who don't already have everything)

But my major complaint, is HOW rioters say things on the forums. Its not what they say, its how they say it. See Ironstylus post earlier that got a lot of flack. I'm sure he didn't mean it how it came out, but you need to realize, you need to be VERY clear how you say things, as a lot of posts have a general...smug? air about them. People are seeing that more and more, and are getting annoyed. There are a lot of good rioters to, but every now and then, certain posts basically come off almost...condescending? See Phreak a while back when he used to post more, I personally don't know the guy, so i cant comment on him, but his posts came off as very condescending/know it all to me, the I'm right, your wrong attitude is NOT a healthy one to take, whether that's how he MEANT for it to come out, doesn't matter, because that how it was read by the forum goers. His general statement could very well be correct, but if you come out and almost insult the person your telling it to, people are not going to like it.

A general...tone shift, to being less defensive/evasive about everything, and getting a better idea how to respond to things better would do a WORLD of good for you guys, as the bad will stick out in peoples head more then the good, that's just how people work sadly...so a few bad experiences for people will put a bad taste in their mouth, regardless how many good experiences they may have had....ALSO sorry for the ramble...