I wonder how bad all the @Riot's want to tell us off.

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mrdude5410

Senior Member

02-18-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by WizardCrab View Post
I could see that. I'll have to think on this, although we don't have any plans to (or even any conversations about) putting ultimate skins on sale after the release sale.
Is there any chance you guys would ever consider increasing IP gains? I know there are people who already have every champ and rune they could want, but for those of us who don't, it takes 40+ hours of gameplay per 6300 champ.


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Haha same YOLO

Senior Member

02-18-2014

Riot should hire me. I've already created a great e-commerce system elsewhere


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KSHarrison

Senior Member

02-18-2014

Being on Riot forums has provided me a lot of insight into the character and motivations of people. It's really fascinating, and in some instances, depressing. But I have a feeling the sensible people tend to not be the loudest, only I haven't figured out a reason for it. I'm trying to convince myself it's not an optimistic conviction I'm holding on to.


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jimmy57

Senior Member

02-18-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
I'll acknowledge it :P

Sometimes we get frustrated - we're human beings too. But I think the scale and growth of the community has made all this really hard (for me, at least) to wrap my head around.

Back when I started (MF patch), it was pretty easy to have a good Red-to-player post ratio, get on hot threads, etc. Now, we've grown a lot, but the community has grown more. Additionally, people like myself are less in-touch with the details as we're trying to manage the direction and strategy, meaning questions of "why you nerf X" aren't things that we give as much context on these days.

And that's just for NA. Imagine Korea, or EUNE where we might only have one or two people on the development teams with relevant language proficiency.

If I picked what actually frustrates me, it's the conspiracy theories on intent. I don't mind people yelling at the design team, and sometimes there's good info there, I get pissy at the "ROIT IS GREEDY" or things like that, because it's such a ridiculous notion. Another one is "THEY BALANCE ON PREFERENCE OF THEIR CHAMPS" or other basically other things that have no value to even say. We make enough real mistakes that I think talking about those, and focusing there, is a healthier conversation, even in the face of really harsh critiques or upset players.

Some of this is me being 35, though, I imagine. I did very similar things when I was younger and just got on forums and was SURE I knew why things happened, and had this really complete world-view in my mind. Likely the most important thing I learned that allowed me to get into game development was when I understood how much I didn't know.
Except you all have done nearly nothing but show your perpensity for greed.

Let's see what you've done:
Lie about IP capping of champions
Introduce 4800 tier
Introduce 6300 tier
Release all new champions at 6300
Reduce IP Gains
Nerf the **** out of IP gains again
Not fixed the broken rune system that's a money grab (only spend IP on runes = less ip for champs)
Not done any free champ weekends/double IP weekends since rito got big.
+more


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SmokingPuffin

Senior Member

02-18-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Letkhar View Post
That's exactly my point. You said earlier that it would be optimal for you to skim, but surely you agree with me that in this case where there is practically 0 competition skimming would be a bad strategy?
Skimming is an optimal strategy in another well-studied monopoly market: books. When you have a hit title on your hands like Harry Potter or Twilight, you release at a high price point, then gradually reduce pricing over time in order to maximize profit.

Movies is another place where you see an extremely ornate, time-shifted skimming strategy for AAA titles. Most video games also have this behavior, although their system is more flexible than the movie model.


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WizardCrab

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eCommerce Associate

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02-18-2014
27 of 63 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeafCatMoan View Post
I think the feel is, "No company gives things away, even if it looks like they're giving something away there must be some ulterior motive behind it that makes even more money"

Sort of like a double bluff compared to other companies. You seem so giving but all that does is put peoples guard up since they've been so conditioned into the frankly well deserved belief that companies will do anything to get your money.

So there is a huge skepticism behind anything "nice" you do for players.
So there is also such a thing as creating value.

Imagine us in an auction house. We both want to buy a rare egg; only one of it exists in the world. The egg will go for $1,000,000. I need the egg because it can be used to cure my mother's disease. You need the egg because it can be used to cure your father's disease. We are both willing to pay $1,000,000 for this egg, cause that's all we have. There is one scenario where I end up with $0 and the egg and a healthy mom, and one scenario where you end up with $0 and the egg and a healthy dad. Only one of our parents will survive, right? It sounds like we have really competing goals, right?

But what if the egg's yolk cures my mom's disease and the egg's shell cures your dad's? We can now end up in a scenario where we each end up with $500K, the part of the egg we need, and a healthy parent. We've just created a ton of value. By communicating, we figured out that we don't really have competing goals. We could actually work together to achieve a result EVEN BETTER than one we could have done alone. Even when we seemed against each other.

This is what we can do, Riot and players. You guys want to have the best game ever, in our understanding. We know that. We, as a company, want to continue to exist to make awesome games. Part of that requires financing. People don't like spending money. These seem like conflicting goals.

Our theory is that if we can get you what you want, then the money will follow and we'll be able to continue existing. Sometimes getting you what you want requires leaving money on the table. We do this, and we do it more than you know and more than I could ever tell you (and I don't care if you don't believe me here, it's the truth). We feel that with this strategy we will be able to create value, and by giving you things, we actually benefit as well. It's just like if I gave you the egg shell you needed. Everybody can win.

So yes, when we're being "nice," we ARE being nice. You don't have to lose at all. But that doesn't mean it doesn't also benefit us.


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mi ramfan

Senior Member

02-18-2014

Does it really matter how Riot structures their prices that much? I mean, the whole "discount @release" vs "skimming" argument is really meaningless in the scheme of things. None of the people who believe Riot is all about the $ will be persuaded anyways, and Riot is clearly making enough money to stay in business without resorting to some of the obvious tactics they could take to milk the community. Let's leave it at that.

I think the biggest monetary issue in the game right now is the Rune system, because there are so many runes you have to buy just to be competitive (Armor seals and lifesteal/movement quints being the most obvious examples I can think of off the top of your head) and they're incredibly expensive in IP. For a new player who doesn't immediately know which runes to buy, they could end up wasting a ton of IP on runes that are just terrible (stuff like Armor marks, reduced death time quintessences, etc) and then be screwed when they queue up for ranked thinking "I've got a full rune page, I'm good".

(this isn't addressed specifically at wizardcrab because he already responded to this in his thread last night, i'm just posting it again to spark a discussion that isn't "riot is greedy" vs "riot isn't greedy")


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WizardCrab

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02-18-2014
28 of 63 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by LethaI View Post
WizardCrab, can you provide us some information on why Riot ignores us when it comes to server stability?

The servers are down every day now, and it would be nice to get a clear answer on why this is happening and what they're trying to do to fix it (without any compensation at all). but sadly, riot is not providing us with information they stay quite and open the same thread every day saying "we are investigating.. blabla"
Disclaimer: I know nothing about the servers. The following does not represent anyone's views but my own!

As a thought experiment, assume we are investigating the server issues. If we're investigating it, what's the likelihood we know exactly what the problem is? What's an example of something satisfying we could message during this investigation period?

Again, just a thought experiment.


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Haha same YOLO

Senior Member

02-18-2014

Dude, come on. Running a business is NOT NICE. It's a BUSINESS. If it was nice, you would give away the profits after to charity, make it a non-profit, and really be "nice"

Riot doesn't do that. Businesses are inherently there to make a profit for their owners, and even non-profits can not be "nice"

That's a slippery slope to go down, that you guys are being "nice."

If you are generating income, and not reducing prices or giving back that money to the community, you are running a business for a profit, and saying "but we're nice because we don't run it for MORE of a profit!" is a poor argument.


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Limakoko808

Senior Member

02-18-2014

Isnt it possible to get PFE and SGU in mystery gifts? I think them including such high priced skins in the list is pretty generous