I wonder how bad all the @Riot's want to tell us off.

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wwallyw

Senior Member

02-18-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Invested players of a champion will ALWAYS dislike adding weaknesses to existing champions.
The problem that I see, is that you didn't add any weaknesses to Skarner, you simply too away his strengths- which from a champ that was already borderline viable, has really pushed him over the edge.


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FatedTitan

Senior Member

02-18-2014

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Originally Posted by Morello View Post
So, if some Skarner players are upset in the short-term, to get gains in the mid- to long-term, that sucks, but is a cost that needs to be paid.

But how do you know that there will be mid-long term gains? You can't prove that there will be gains in the long run. You could rework a kit that people enjoyed at one point into something else, believing that it will be better for that champ in the long term, but it end up being poor for the long term. It could ruin the champion in the long term.

Let's pretend that the Xerath rework turns out to be a massive failure (I don't think it will be) and two years down the line, Xerath is the least popular champion by far and is just not cutting it. Will there be ANOTHER rework? What if the community is still saying "Won't you just bring old Xerath back?" Will you bring it back? Or are things that are gone permanently removed?

What about Trundle? All Trundle players asked for was some QoL upgrades, that he got with his update, but then we got this complete character remodel and retcon that no Trundle players asked for. The reasons for those changes have been stated time and time again, and I understand Riot's position on the matter whether I agree with it or not, but let's look at Trundle now. Trundle has become a popular top lane champ because of the current meta shift. He counters the tanky top laners, which gives him more popularity. But let's take it back a few weeks. Before Trundle was brought into popularity to counter these tanky top laners. Where was Trundle sitting then? In the Bottom 10 of popularity. Because it was never about how he looked, it was about the problems with his kit.

I guess what I'm getting at is this. You can't determine if something will be healthy mid-long term at the beginning. What do you do when it turns out to not be healthy? What if Trundle was still being complained about heavily (I know he's not, but trying to make an example) and players were asking if they could have old Trundle back? Would you give it back, or would it be "too bad"?


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WizardCrab

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02-18-2014
11 of 63 Riot Posts

A couple of you here seem upset that Morello hasn't touched on the skins pricing issue that's been brought up. That's not his department, but I can fill in a little.

We have been trying to figure out what our strategy is for 2014 regarding which skins we are going to put out for each tier and at what frequency. There are a lot of conflicting motivations for pursuing one strategy versus another. One side is that some players want cheaper options for skins. Another side is that most players enjoy the 1350 skins more than the 750s, even if you factor in the difference in price. Those players would prefer that we focus only on the higher priced skins.

The idea that we are focusing more on 1350s than 750s out of greed is a little off base. I'm not fully convinced that this even makes us more money to begin with, and the shift towards those skins was not borne out of any information even related to money. To put it simply, the skins team started making more awesome skins that were closer to legendary quality (and took more time/resources than 975 skins). We didn't want to make all of these legendary, so we held them back a bit and made the new price tier. But in general, it's hard to discourage the skins guys from making the best freakin' skins they can.

We have limited resources to make skins, so there will end up having to be a tradeoff between making skins of different price tiers. We haven't solidified which ones we are making for 2014, but we'll keep you updated. I can tell you that right now there are skins of all tiers (including 750) in the pipeline.


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tailsmph

Senior Member

02-18-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by WizardCrab View Post
A couple of you here seem upset that Morello hasn't touched on the skins pricing issue that's been brought up. That's not his department, but I can fill in a little.

We have been trying to figure out what our strategy is for 2014 regarding which skins we are going to put out for each tier and at what frequency. There are a lot of conflicting motivations for pursuing one strategy versus another. One side is that some players want cheaper options for skins. Another side is that most players enjoy the 1350 skins more than the 750s, even if you factor in the difference in price. Those players would prefer that we focus only on the higher priced skins.

The idea that we are focusing more on 1350s than 750s out of greed is a little off base. I'm not fully convinced that this even makes us more money to begin with, and the shift towards those skins was not borne out of any information even related to money. To put it simply, the skins team started making more awesome skins that were closer to legendary quality (and took more time/resources than 975 skins). We didn't want to make all of these legendary, so we held them back a bit and made the new price tier. But in general, it's hard to discourage the skins guys from making the best freakin' skins they can.

We have limited resources to make skins, so there will end up having to be a tradeoff between making skins of different price tiers. We haven't solidified which ones we are making for 2014, but we'll keep you updated. I can tell you that right now there are skins of all tiers (including 750) in the pipeline.
Let me make something clear; NOBODY enjoys blowing $10 worth of RP on one skin (thats not even legendary). 1350 is such a stupid and awkward price point because these skins can be priced at 975, but someone decided that they can get a little more out of their players by taking the former 975 price point and making it higher. It should be removed and all this skins in this tier should be 975, Like it was before this abomination existed.

I can buy Final Fanatasy 7 on steam for less than a 1350 skin. One of the greatest RPG's of all time should more expensive than extra pixels


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Cuix

Senior Member

02-18-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by WizardCrab View Post
We have limited resources to make skins, so there will end up having to be a tradeoff between making skins of different price tiers. We haven't solidified which ones we are making for 2014, but we'll keep you updated. I can tell you that right now there are skins of all tiers (including 750) in the pipeline.
Thank you for the insight, and please continue to keep us informed concerning skin pricing and your plans in regards to that. Even one post every couple months would be absolutely great, though more would of course be appreciated. I know Parrot has talked about this issue as well, and has taken suggestions for lower-priced-but-cool skins. It's been an issue for a while, however, so please know that folks are getting crabby (heh) for a valid reason.

Could you have somebody come 'round to talk about IP values? Lower IP gain, higher prices all around, slow price reductions, slow/no rewards/compensations/events, etc. It'd be a lot easier to avoid "Riot is greedy" thinking if we could have more open and honest discussion on that topic.


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Eph289

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Senior Member

02-18-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by WizardCrab View Post
A couple of you here seem upset that Morello hasn't touched on the skins pricing issue that's been brought up. That's not his department, but I can fill in a little.

We have been trying to figure out what our strategy is for 2014 regarding which skins we are going to put out for each tier and at what frequency. There are a lot of conflicting motivations for pursuing one strategy versus another. One side is that some players want cheaper options for skins. Another side is that most players enjoy the 1350 skins more than the 750s, even if you factor in the difference in price. Those players would prefer that we focus only on the higher priced skins.

The idea that we are focusing more on 1350s than 750s out of greed is a little off base. I'm not fully convinced that this even makes us more money to begin with, and the shift towards those skins was not borne out of any information even related to money. To put it simply, the skins team started making more awesome skins that were closer to legendary quality (and took more time/resources than 975 skins). We didn't want to make all of these legendary, so we held them back a bit and made the new price tier. But in general, it's hard to discourage the skins guys from making the best freakin' skins they can.

We have limited resources to make skins, so there will end up having to be a tradeoff between making skins of different price tiers. We haven't solidified which ones we are making for 2014, but we'll keep you updated. I can tell you that right now there are skins of all tiers (including 750) in the pipeline.
Speaking as a player who generally enjoys the cheaper skins (Enchanted Galio is my favorite), are there 520/750 skins coming out soon (tm) that AREN'T the SKT ones? Those are the main ones I remember at that price point from last year.

I know the skins team loves piling on the awesome, but a couple of simpler skins per quarter would really ease this pain point.


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SmokingPuffin

Senior Member

02-18-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by WizardCrab View Post
The idea that we are focusing more on 1350s than 750s out of greed is a little off base. I'm not fully convinced that this even makes us more money to begin with, and the shift towards those skins was not borne out of any information even related to money. To put it simply, the skins team started making more awesome skins that were closer to legendary quality (and took more time/resources than 975 skins). We didn't want to make all of these legendary, so we held them back a bit and made the new price tier. But in general, it's hard to discourage the skins guys from making the best freakin' skins they can.
I absolutely don't want to discourage people from making the best skins they can. I like the higher quality skins and I have no trouble justifying spending more money on the best bling for my favorite champions. I will buy some arbitrarily large number of skins if you keep making Haunted Zyra, Rocket Girl Tristana, Bear Cavalry Sejuani, and so on.

On the flip side, I see an untapped market for what is basically a recolor+ skin at the low end pricing. I think there are many champions that would sell well with some recolor and minor texture work. In particular, I think there is a big market for recolored particles, like say Goth Annie or Ice Drake Shyvana, and this would remain true even if the skin itself were just a recolor or perhaps had some minor texture edits.


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Hellioning

Senior Member

02-18-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by WizardCrab View Post
A couple of you here seem upset that Morello hasn't touched on the skins pricing issue that's been brought up. That's not his department, but I can fill in a little.

We have been trying to figure out what our strategy is for 2014 regarding which skins we are going to put out for each tier and at what frequency. There are a lot of conflicting motivations for pursuing one strategy versus another. One side is that some players want cheaper options for skins. Another side is that most players enjoy the 1350 skins more than the 750s, even if you factor in the difference in price. Those players would prefer that we focus only on the higher priced skins.

The idea that we are focusing more on 1350s than 750s out of greed is a little off base. I'm not fully convinced that this even makes us more money to begin with, and the shift towards those skins was not borne out of any information even related to money. To put it simply, the skins team started making more awesome skins that were closer to legendary quality (and took more time/resources than 975 skins). We didn't want to make all of these legendary, so we held them back a bit and made the new price tier. But in general, it's hard to discourage the skins guys from making the best freakin' skins they can.

We have limited resources to make skins, so there will end up having to be a tradeoff between making skins of different price tiers. We haven't solidified which ones we are making for 2014, but we'll keep you updated. I can tell you that right now there are skins of all tiers (including 750) in the pipeline.
Can you ask the skin guys to lower their standards and just make a bunch of recolors? I like recolors. They're cool and cheap.


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TheWolfSage

Senior Member

02-18-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by tailsmph View Post
Let me make something clear; NOBODY enjoys blowing $10 worth of RP on one skin (thats not even legendary). 1350 is such a stupid and awkward price point because these skins can be priced at 975, but someone decided that they can get a little more out of their players by taking the former 975 price point and making it higher. It should be removed and all this skins in this tier should be 975, Like it was before this abomination existed.

I can buy Final Fanatasy 7 on steam for less than a 1350 skin. One of the greatest RPG's of all time should more expensive than extra pixels
Pretty much agree with this. PFE was the biggest waste of money; not because it wasn't an awesome skin with lots of cool features and times, but because I would never play League for an extra 20-30+ hours JUST because of that skin. I could easily buy a game (or several, if you want to go real bargain-shopping) that would last for WAY more than 20 hours with the same price point.

They should sell the skins for $15, top, IMHO. That's seriously amped up Legendaries. Regular skins should be less than $5; I've only ever purchased 1 skin, mostly because of the price points, and even then it was only because I had extra RP sitting around with no champs to buy and Foxfire Ahri (my favorite champ) happened to be on sale.


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Von Nicklesnout

Senior Member

02-18-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Satirized versions make us laugh a lot - all in good humor.

I actually call Hipp "Hippalu$" internally because the idea is so ridiculously absurd it's really funny to me. I've never had the level of freedom to not need to care about how to mange commerce-oriented stuff, where in a lot of organizations these disciplines DO argue a lot because they have mutually exclusive goals.

Here, we get to try and make LoL better, and while that involves a lot tradeoffs (as any hard work does), there's no cash czar trying to **** things up.
What about a Walrus?

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