@Morello, now that you're here, can we talk about Aatrox?

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LululuCawCaw

Senior Member

02-18-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiro Pichu View Post
wtf is the point of releasing a champion when you know he's gonna be op?
To make money.


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thumbnail9

Senior Member

02-18-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
We made some big game health mistakes on Aatrox that put him in a problematic spot - there's accuracy in the fact that if he's buffed, he'll be a problem.

We've had some Aatrox changes to solve this (as a soft rework sorta thing) that could fix this, and then let him get back into the game. I'll have to check on the details to see which direction we've taken with it (there were a lot of ideas on the table for it, originally).
Was it the passive? or the massive free damage.


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Tortferngatr

Senior Member

02-18-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
We made some big game health mistakes on Aatrox that put him in a problematic spot - there's accuracy in the fact that if he's buffed, he'll be a problem.

We've had some Aatrox changes to solve this (as a soft rework sorta thing) that could fix this, and then let him get back into the game. I'll have to check on the details to see which direction we've taken with it (there were a lot of ideas on the table for it, originally).
I recall that his %health costs were meant to keep him in check to try to avoid the game health problems of other high-sustain fighter champions--essentially, by forcing him to attack at less-than-optimum health and build up the Blood Well (his central mechanic), he could get stronger tools to fight at less-than-optimum health.

When I first played Aatrox's current kit on PBE, I loved his ability to generate a need for continuous aggression to build the Blood Well. His entire design seemed to be based around feeding off war to fuel his strength--the blood constantly had to flow. Aatrox's strength comes from the shedding of blood--if he can't shed blood, he weakens. His relentless pursuit of bloodshed--his own or his enemies'--can sometimes destroy him. But he'll always come back, like war itself always does. He only needs the chance to feed off some more hatred, and then the blood will flow again.

The fantasy of playing Aatrox seems to inherently imply the potential for counterplay--stop the blood from flowing to stop Aatrox.

I think that if Aatrox had to deal damage to something in order to keep the Blood Well from decaying (as opposed to, say, getting hit by a stray skillshot for combat purposes), and the Blood Well ALSO scaled the damage of his abilities, Blood Price, and maybe Blood Thirst healing, he could get a net power increase.

Heck, maybe test out making his ultimate's base AS boost less (like 20% more AS base), but increase the power of the AS boost from the Blood Well by 40/50/60% (meaning a total of 108 AS from ult and passive at level 16-18 with full Blood Well. At level 6 it's a 69% AS boost from ult and passive)

I don't know much about him on Summoner's Rift right now (and yes, this change would probably put him back in Thresh tier on Dominion), but from a theme perspective? I want him to be a god of war when the Blood Well is full and he has full items. Make it harder to maintain that strength without violence--the blood must flow.


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Darkin Blade

Senior Member

02-18-2014

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Originally Posted by Mogs01gt View Post
It works for Xin
Aatrox isn't nearly as durable as Xin.


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exec3

Senior Member

02-18-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
We made some big game health mistakes on Aatrox that put him in a problematic spot - there's accuracy in the fact that if he's buffed, he'll be a problem.
This is the exact opposite of what you guys said on his release. Aatrox was often referred to as a healthy melee ADC and the direction that you want to take the role. :S


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Morello

Lead Designer

02-18-2014
2 of 2 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDarklnBlade View Post
I'm not asking for direct buffs, I'm asking for a redistribution of power. Maybe nerf his self sustain/revive in exchange for better base stats?
Yeah, that's the idea here. Not specifically that one, but moving power and mechanics around to basically serve the character better.


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DemiluniS

Senior Member

02-18-2014

why you care about aatrox so much when other champions like sejuani for example need those power shifts around her kit since her last nerf?! I don't get your priorities, it looks like you just hate some of your champions


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Raiyn

Senior Member

02-18-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Yeah, that's the idea here. Not specifically that one, but moving power and mechanics around to basically serve the character better.


Morello I play a decent amount of Aatrox.. and giving a 10-30 per level health buff wouldn't throw him into the OP category by any mean, at least I don't see why it would. It would just make his laning that little bit easier and put him towards balance.

As he stands now you can't duel anyone in the first 4 levels and even after that you have to be careful until you buy an early giants belt. It's not as though Aatrox has an overbearing late game either.. so I'm confused why he can't get this minor health tweak. His kit has 1000 ways to be counterplayed.

His Q? CC mid air.

His W? Ignite shuts him out harder than it does Mundo

His E? Its a triangle...the tip is tiny heheh

His R? Wait it out, walk away or burst him.

Theres more counterplay to Aatrox than there is Yasuo...but Yasuo gets a higher base health? There's more counterplay to Aatrox than a dozen champions with higher base health. This doesn't make any sense to me.

I know the whole QWER counterplay thing I posted is something you must be aware of...but as a player I'm confused as to how you took high counterplay and slight buffs to translate into OP Aatrox if his base HP/level is buffed

Could you explain a bit more/explain maybe a couple ideas that were thrown out....and if you're in an awesome mood a big estimate as to when we might see change i.e. 5 months? 10 months?


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Ralik098

Senior Member

02-18-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by DemiluniS View Post
why you care about aatrox so much when other champions like sejuani for example need those power shifts around her kit since her last nerf?! I don't get your priorities, it looks like you just hate some of your champions
There are a ton of champions that need work, so many of them are just sitting and waiting for Riot to do something. The list just keeps getting longer and longer with every patch...


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Critkeeper

Senior Member

02-18-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Yeah, that's the idea here. Not specifically that one, but moving power and mechanics around to basically serve the character better.
Tryndamere and especially fiora could use the same treatment.

You keep saying you feel bad about fiora's state, but patch after patch there aren't any changes to her.