Skarner Rework Follow Through

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RiotScruffy

Game Designer

02-17-2014
17 of 29 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Genow View Post
now just make his W ramp up over 2 S, not 3
We could definitely put more power/reliability into W but it would mean less power in his CC. It's a totally valid proposal, would you rather see more power in his speed or CC?


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MajorPain9

Senior Member

02-17-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
We could definitely put more power/reliability into W but it would mean less power in his CC. It's a totally valid proposal, would you rather see more power in his speed or CC?
His CC was already nerfed to make up for the fact that he gets "reliable damage increase" that can't be applied with out his original CC in the first place. Why does he have to keep sacrificing something when he is already outclassed by every champion in every role at this point?


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Shahamut

Senior Member

02-17-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
Hey quick update about PBE changes. They wont be up today but should be on pbe later this week. This is the tentative changelist

-E slow increased from 30/35/40/45/50 to 52/54/56/58/60%
-E missile width increased slightly
-E missile speed increased slightly
-E mana cost reduced by 10

These changes are WIP so they may be adjusted after testing and feedback. The main problems we're trying to solve with these are:
-His early game is weak from both not having a strong 1 point ability and weak pre 6 ganks. 1 point in E should hopefully make him a better ganker pre 6.
-Soften up the difficulty of landing the E missile slightly to match the power of its effect
-Generally push his power back into a more CC focused space

These numbers may seem crazy, but as a first pass I think this will really help Skarner out in terms of viability.

Umm... what? Those numbers don't sound even remotely crazy... In fact they still sound pretty weak.

Reasons:

Slow increase: this will indeed HELP with the "1 point wonder" bit that peeps keep mentioning, but it still doesn't change the fact that skarner has nothing to follow up with after landing a slow, especially pre 6. Even after 6, if he has to use the slow to get into range for his R, after the suppression ends, they didn't take much damage and they still just walk away. Skarner will still only be a viable pick IF he is on a team that offers a lot of hard CC in every position.

Missile Width/speed: Thanks I guess. This will make the slow easier to land. The speed was stupid slow to begin with, so again, nothing crazy here.

Mana Reduction: WE HAVE BEEN ASKING FOR THIS SINCE THE REWORK FIRST GOT MENTIONED! WHAT IS CRAZY ABOUT THIS IS THAT YOU ARE JUST NOW DECIDING TO TRY AGAIN!


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Hexalyte

Member

02-17-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
We could definitely put more power/reliability into W but it would mean less power in his CC. It's a totally valid proposal, would you rather see more power in his speed or CC?
It should be an even match up, just like you could with Kayle Q, then W, to slow, speed, slow speed. Currently, neither of Skarner's abilities are efficient enough for catching up and staying with the target.

His perma-slow was not well designed, but his current design doesn't allow him to do much at all in comparison to so many other super-mobile cc junglers.


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RiotScruffy

Game Designer

02-17-2014
18 of 29 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hexalyte View Post
It should be an even match up, just like you could with Kayle Q, then W, to slow, speed, slow speed. Currently, neither of Skarner's abilities are efficient enough for catching up and staying with the target.

His perma-slow was not well designed, but his current design doesn't allow him to do much at all in comparison to so many other super-mobile cc junglers.
Ok good point, maybe we could spit the changes up between E and W.


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MajorPain9

Senior Member

02-17-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
Ok good point, maybe we could spit the changes up between E and W.
*Bangs head against wall*


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Cuxman

Senior Member

02-17-2014

The same as always, these changes are the same that got announced
3 days,
66 pages
and hundreds of posts before now.

And not a single word of all that we wrote changed anything,
just like the “Skarner I miss your kind” thread.


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VIOLENTxSHINOBI

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Senior Member

02-17-2014

I feel as though you are trying to move him away form the solo sticking power he used to rely on and more towards a team oriented ganker. Not saying that's bad or good, but the lack of attention to Skarners sticking power seems telling of this.

He will need teammates to do more damage in the time they are CC'd as he will no longer have constant stick potential enabling him the chase down.


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Raiyn

Senior Member

02-17-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
We could definitely put more power/reliability into W but it would mean less power in his CC. It's a totally valid proposal, would you rather see more power in his speed or CC?

Holy hell you're starting this again?

He doesn't have power in his CC right now and its because his W is useless and his Q doesn't have a perma slow.



You made a similar (im sorry) stupid comment before about Skarner having dueling power and you were downvoted. Why do think this time will be any different when you make a similar invalid comment...

Here let me remind you what you said that was heavily downvoted. Downvotes are imo a great sign that people aren't happy and MAYBE you're wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
It relates to the mechanics of Skarners old q that gave him fewer ways to fight from behind and his opponents fewer options to fight him with when he was ahead.

That said I do think we have shifted his power away from cc into more reliable dps which is not strengthening the fantasy for his core players.


Holy hell I'm not normally this disrespectful but my god do you talk some bull****.

You shifted his CC into dps but its dps that can't be used because he can't gap close or stay in range long enough to use it this isn't what someone would call reliable dps

STOP

TALKING

RIOT

JIBBER

JABBER

My god I've never seen anyone, including Scarizard, talk so much phony and pretentious garbage. I'm so disappointed that Riot thinks this an acceptable attitude to take. You're essentially spewing lies at us and expecting to say YES MASTER SCRUFFY OF COURSE TOXIC, BALANCE, HEALTH! YES! CC!

We're not morons most of see this as the nonsense it really is, look at your downvotes. Stop spewing it.


------------------

For the love of god, stop trying to convince us that your version of skarner is OP/would be OP even if this current kit had more CC, dueling power or speed.

It wouldn't unless you did something radical like "E now has a 1 second cooldown and slows for 70%!" "W now provides instant 40% speed buff" "Q now gives the full 30% attack speed"


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Venowolf

Senior Member

02-17-2014

The skip of the changes that WE WANT:

Passive: Is fine

Q: Need more range (maybe 100 estra range) because not slow anymore or increase the duration of the stacks to clear up the camps and conservate more mana.

W: Redeuce the ramp-up time (from 3 seconds to 2 to get his maximun speed) or increase the % of MS in all ranks.

E: Needs the old mechanic of the mark but now when auto attack or slash a marked enemie's skarner applies a 1 second slow. This sinergyze very well with Skarner passive.

Also need a more powerful slow in all leves specially in low ranks of fracture and more width in the skill shot. Actually Skarner has ver weak early game specially in ganks pre level 6.

R: Very nice with the new 0.25 of Root in the initial animation

Check all the mana cost of his abilities or base mana and mana scale per level.

All that are tweaks in his numbers of the rework kit and the appearence of the old mechanic of his mark in his E but with a hard cc effect to help Skarner to gank in pre level 6 state.