Skarner Rework Follow Through

First Riot Post
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Tang Bohu

Senior Member

02-14-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scruffy
The most frequent complaint I'm seeing is that a lot of the CC power that was core to Skarner's appeal is lowered, and that it's something that is core to his identity. So, with balance changes aside for the Skarner followup, this is something that we can try to bring back. His current pattern has more dueling/fighting power but less CC, but we can shift some of his power back into more impactful CC that will bring him closer to CC tank role that he had before.
I really appreciate you looking for feedback, but I feel like this quote isn't true. In particular I mean the "More dueling/fighting power" aspect. When I read this, I think "Oh, so top lane skarner type stuff". (Somewhat how Shyvana is a popular top laner because she is such a good duelist/fighter)...

In all reality, he was pretty good at that before. He definitely needed tweaks to make it more competitively viable, but it was something he could get away with... And it was quite fun.

The big thing that made him good at this was his sustain and sticking power when you were going to all-in him.

People have said "Oh you can get old sticking power, just get gauntlet, or FM or something" ...

...Well, I can do that on anyone... How is that anywhere near the same thing?

His sustain is also completely gone... Which sucks.... Put his slow on a longer CD...

It feels like there IS NO fighter/duelist concept behind it. When I play the new Skarner I feel like I am required to build full utility tank... Which sucks... Cause I miss "mess mofo's up" Skarner.

Thank you for posting this to get feedback. I sincerely hope you read this, and possibly even reply!

-Magic


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MemeticMachine

Senior Member

02-14-2014

Just make skarner manaless! don't change anything else
I think gd's less mad about skarner's rework and more mad about why riot devoted more time to nerfing a champ who's barely played, and less time nerfing champs that deserve it *cough* yasuo *cough*


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Black Lister

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Senior Member

02-14-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by MemeticMachine View Post
Just make skarner manaless! don't change anything else.
No.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MemeticMachine View Post
I think gd's less mad about skarner's rework and more mad about why riot devoted more time to nerfing a champ who's barely played, and less time nerfing champs that deserve it *cough* yasuo *cough*
Nope, we're mad about the rework.


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RiotScruffy

Game Designer

02-14-2014
14 of 29 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magic Library View Post
I really appreciate you looking for feedback, but I feel like this quote isn't true. In particular I mean the "More dueling/fighting power" aspect. When I read this, I think "Oh, so top lane skarner type stuff". (Somewhat how Shyvana is a popular top laner because she is such a good duelist/fighter)...

In all reality, he was pretty good at that before. He definitely needed tweaks to make it more competitively viable, but it was something he could get away with... And it was quite fun.

The big thing that made him good at this was his sustain and sticking power when you were going to all-in him.

People have said "Oh you can get old sticking power, just get gauntlet, or FM or something" ...

...Well, I can do that on anyone... How is that anywhere near the same thing?

His sustain is also completely gone... Which sucks.... Put his slow on a longer CD...

It feels like there IS NO fighter/duelist concept behind it. When I play the new Skarner I feel like I am required to build full utility tank... Which sucks... Cause I miss "mess mofo's up" Skarner.

Thank you for posting this to get feedback. I sincerely hope you read this, and possibly even reply!

-Magic
Ya I'm hearing this loud and clear. We will be continually updating him until he as useful and powerful as other characters in his role.


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Maulkrieg

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Senior Member

02-14-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
Ya I'm hearing this loud and clear. We will be continually updating him until he as useful and powerful as other characters in his role.
This is the kinda stuff we want to hear!

We just want him to be a peeler again that can stick well enough to let his passive actually work, otherwise you might as well give him a new one and lower all of his CDs substantially.


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Sasori of Krieg

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Senior Member

02-14-2014

He is a little too weak.

His shield duration/amount could probably use a boost if you want to encourage his fighterish side. Or maybe just make the speed not dependent upon keeping the shield and just a flat duration.

Another aspect that could be improved is a reduction on his E CD. The idea of getting rid of the perma slow was good, but increasing the CD on E while removing his sustain killed the skill.

His Q is nice...maybe a little increase on the aoe range (like 25-35). Otherwise very nicely done.

His passive is as good as ever and nice job on his ult.

Overall very good attempt, you just played it a little too safe and released him a little to prenerfed. Seems like you were afraid he'd be overpowering, when he is in reality far from it.

I have been playing Skarner since release. He was indeed not competitive. I'd get super fed in ranked queues, and still get stomped. 2 ranged champs and some CC just negated him.
He does fight against the famine much better now. But he cannot feast in his current state even when fed.


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gggyan

Senior Member

02-14-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
Hey guys,

We're really excited that the Skarner rework is now live, and we are playing him a ton on live, reading all of the forum feedback, and even watching a few Skarner streams. We are very passionate about him and we want him to be both a very healthy and fun champion for the game and a viable and balanced character.

These changes in 4.2 were targeted at improving his gameplay to accomplish a few goals:

-Enable more ability for Skarner and his opponents to display their skill
-Reduce the amount of feast/famine that Skarner can experience (when he's ahead he is unstoppable, when he's behind he has a hard time contributing at all)
-Create more defined windows of power for Skarner to create more interaction between him and his opponent

We think that the changes have accomplished these goals and we always try to release character in as balanced of a state as we can, but it is always a possibility that he is not balanced. The important thing here is that we are actively monitoring and planning on a follow up in the next patch for Skarner to make sure that he is balanced and viable.

Thanks again for all of your feedback, and we are always actively working to improve the game (and in this case Skarner). I'll come back to this thread to answer questions if you have any.

-Scruffy
Yeah is was so unstoppable he was always picked in the LCS... -_-

Meanwhile Yasuo, Jinx, Vi, Kass....


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dRango

Junior Member

02-14-2014

Every skarner player wants old skarner back. I havent seen a movement like this in a while


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wapster

Senior Member

02-14-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
Ya I'm hearing this loud and clear. We will be continually updating him until he as useful and powerful as other characters in his role.
Are you also hearing the complaints that Skarner's kit is now extremely incoherent? Nothing flows or makes sense anymore on him. Are there any plans to rework his rework and make this actually, well, work?

Also, while I appreciate your work, it would be nice if we could actually get some consistent feedback. There is over 100 pages of useful feedback from the community, yet only a handful of posts from you actually communicating with us. Many of us are upset with the entire direction Skarner was taken, and we are worried that these fixes are just going to be number tweaks. 110+ pages of negative feedback should show that there are some SERIOUS problems with Skarner right now, and no simple number adjustment is going to fix that. The main problem comes from a faulty and incoherent kit in which nearly everyone agrees warrants additional and extensive work.
'
Please don't leave us here voicing our concerns with no feedback. This is a follow through thread for a champion that we care about. We are worried about the direction that was taken with Skarner, and it is very clear that what was given to us was a step in the very, very wrong direction. It'd be nice if you were to actually interact with us and make it seem like you care about him too.

There are honestly so many problems with Skarner right now that it seems as if a rework never happened, and instead he is now in a state of requiring a rework due to poor design.


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The Giant Gnome

Senior Member

02-14-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
Ya I'm hearing this loud and clear. We will be continually updating him until he as useful and powerful as other characters in his role.
Im upvoting for the time being, until something is reverted or fixed you are talking out of your ass.