Skarner Rework Follow Through

First Riot Post
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wapster

Senior Member

02-14-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xehnon View Post
Yes, one persons will reply to all 100 pages of feedback.
11 posts over 100 pages, some of which don't even pertain to the discussion at hand really doesn't instill confidence.

There is no direct feedback to our concerns. There is no explanations as to why xyz has happened with Skarner, when all we wanted was for abc.

There is no guidance. There is no voice in this discussion. THERE IS NO FOLLOW UP. It's just a quarantine zone Scruffy made so we can all come here and voice our disgust with the butchering of a beloved champion whilst all of the problems are continued to be ignored.


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Super Explosion

Senior Member

02-14-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by wapster View Post
There is no explanations as to why xyz has happened with Skarner
Perhaps like I posted in the other threads on reworks:

This should really be happening regularly along the development of a rework, with feedback then being examined as well from those sort of prompts.

It happened with the rework of Xerath in Xelnath's thread for the most part.

And so Xerath's rework turned out for the most part quite well.

I mean, the only low point in Xerath's rework (his ultimate) seemed to occur after Xelnath became less involved, and data-based dialog with the community slowed down.


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Admiral Refuge

Junior Member

02-14-2014

I've been playing LoL for a little bit now, and Skarner is my favorite character. I don't jungle him, I play top lane, and after this rework, he's all but useless in lane now. I can't push towers, I can't escape or get close, I don't even have the sustain I used to have. It's very sad, and skarner isn't fun for me to play anymore

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xehnon View Post
Yes, one persons will reply to all 100 pages of feedback.
I think you're missing the point. You can get a good idea about how this has been going in this topic: http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com....php?t=4280838 (EVERYONE, vote in that poll, and pass the link around!).


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Vacus

Senior Member

02-14-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
These are pretty good points and we acknowledge that many champions (including some listed by you) are not perfect. Over time we try to make improvements to the game that allow for more skill expression and player agency on both sides of a fight. Even if a fed Lee Sin engages in a fight with you, wouldn't it be cool if you still had a chance to outplay him for the win?
Frankly? No.

People should be rewarded for being fed. If I'm super fed, and it gives me no significant advantage against my opponents, then why does it matter that I played well in the past?

Having an advantage over your opponent is your reward for outplaying them in the past. If you don't get any advantage, you end up with the bull**** anti-snowball mechanics that made League zero fun at the start of S4. (Those mechanics have since been nerfed and/or removed because it is NOT FUN to have your good play go unrewarded.)


All other things being equal, the guy with more items should win every time that he doesn't make catastrophic errors.


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Foztog

Senior Member

02-14-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Explosion View Post
Here's perhaps one reason I've been making Dota comments:

Because in Dota, there is usually a massive difference between characters.

Mirana and Luna are both ranged carries with roughly similar range:

However, Eclipse and Moonlight Shadow, Sacred Arrow and Lucent Beam, all perhaps massively different abilities.

In League, this tends not to be the case: Jinx ult and Draven ult and Ezreal ult. Characters have very similar capabilities.

So what happens?

Some champions get to be almost strictly better than others at those respective capabilities.

Sure, you can use Skarner ult. Or you can use Lee Sin kick for perhaps double the utility!

Skarner's ult is actually in Dota on Batrider. Except Batrider can fly and drag people over cliffs through a burning trail of fire and falling trees.
DOTA has a hero named Batrider.

How can League compete with that?


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Super Explosion

Senior Member

02-14-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by NUTCRAKKO View Post
DOTA has a hero named Batrider.

How can League compete with that?
They were doing well in Season 1 with the "Sad Mummy" and "Tiny Master of Evil", perhaps.

But it may be pretty difficult to outdo "I can see your house from here, BURNING".

Especially since the game has gotten 'ulta-super-serious' with its aesthetic.

Come on, just let Guinsoo back at champion design. We'd get mad chemists who flip people over the shoulder into a pile of literal glue.

That's perhaps entertaining.


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Urgot my Waifu

Senior Member

02-14-2014

I don't even understand why Skarner was reworked at all. Hearing that his kit was "unhealthy" seems like a real BS term considering his only means of getting close was either using flash or chasing with W and since most champions have a means of escape, I don't see the problem. Unfortunately I commented on this rather late since I felt my opinion would be overlooked as someone who must have no clue what he's talking about, but after seeing the results, I decided to say what I always felt.

Do you know what is unfun in my opinion? Every aspect of Vi's kit. She does everything Skarner can do except for pull them back, which is redundant since she can initiate from over a screen away with Q and R.


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RiotScruffy

Game Designer

02-14-2014
12 of 29 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vacus View Post
Frankly? No.

People should be rewarded for being fed. If I'm super fed, and it gives me no significant advantage against my opponents, then why does it matter that I played well in the past?

Having an advantage over your opponent is your reward for outplaying them in the past. If you don't get any advantage, you end up with the bull**** anti-snowball mechanics that made League zero fun at the start of S4. (Those mechanics have since been nerfed and/or removed because it is NOT FUN to have your good play go unrewarded.)


All other things being equal, the guy with more items should win every time that he doesn't make catastrophic errors.
If there is no way for an opponent to possibly win against a character in a fight, at that point the game is effectively over. Allowing for both players to determine if a fight is won or lost is a core element to skill based competitive games. Items can give advantage to the winning player but there should always be some chance for the behind player to win.

We haven't succeeded in creating this balance with all characters but this is what we are trying to move towards.


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Vlaadokash

Senior Member

02-14-2014

http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com....php?t=4280838

just s reminder to take the poll on how you think Scruffy is handling the rework


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Foztog

Senior Member

02-14-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Explosion View Post
They were doing well in Season 1 with the "Sad Mummy" and "Tiny Master of Evil", perhaps.

But it may be pretty difficult to outdo "I can see your house from here, BURNING".

Especially since the game has gotten 'ulta-super-serious' with its aesthetic.

Come on, just let Guinsoo back at champion design. We'd get mad chemists who flip people over the shoulder into a pile of literal glue.

That's perhaps entertaining.
Honestly, that's an awesome name. I wanna play a hero named Batrider. Not Caitlyn or Annie. I hear "Batrider" and I wanna look him up. I hear "Caitlyn" and I'm like...my ex?