Rengar Rework Strikes Back

First Riot Post
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Kholdstare13

Senior Member

02-14-2014

@Scruffy Could you please address concerns over toxicity of a trinket on the Crystal Scar and Twisted Treeline as well as conflicting with Poro Snax on the Howling Abyss? Summoner's Rift is only 25% of your game.


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Zivr

Junior Member

02-14-2014

Does his Bola Strike go through minions??


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Messaiga

Senior Member

02-14-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kholdstare13 View Post
@Scruffy Could you please address concerns over toxicity of a trinket on the Crystal Scar and Twisted Treeline as well as conflicting with Poro Snax on the Howling Abyss? Summoner's Rift is only 25% of your game.
My guess is on Crystal Scar and TT the active will not be available, and on HA it could dispense Poro-Snax.


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I Am Tolan

Senior Member

02-14-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
Hey all, another update on Rengar progress. So far the changes are testing well, but we noticed 2 major things that needed addressing:

-The cooldowns on Q W and E were not matching up well creating a strange pattern for building up ferocity that couldn't really be planned around or mastered
-Rengar has a great time setting himself up for a team fight, finding a backline target and ambusing, but after the fight against his target is over (win or lose) he has no way of getting out or really doing anything meaningful at that point.

So to solve those problems, we're testing 2 new changes, which seem promising:

-Standardize Q W and E cooldowns to 3 12 and 9 at all ranks creating a clear and learn-able combat pattern, the damage per skill level is adjusted to match the new cooldowns
-5 seconds after Rengar unstealths from R he will enter stealth a second time for 3 seconds and be able to leap.

The second change is really interesting: it gives Rengar a fixed window where he is trying to eliminate his target and then can decide if he should run away, try for a second target, or even use his second leap to all in the first target if he failed to kill them initially.
why are you adding a second free stealth?

talon doesnt get to re stealth if he doesnt kill his target. katarina doesnt get CD resets if someone doesnt die...


I could go on with a list forever, with each of your 118 champions that were designed.

The fact is you shouldnt be rewarded for doing poorly...


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Dhraco

Junior Member

02-14-2014

How about Rengar's ult being similar to Riven's R? meaning he can use R again. In this case, to leap to target and hit them with a basic attack. This would give him a way to escape.

If bola strike ends up granting vision this could help even more...

I think the stealth component of Rengar's ultimate was a subject of discussion to the point where Riot tried a version with no stealth. I am not sure if giving him 2 stealths to his ultimate would really help the counterplay aspect they are trying to work on....

Just my 2 cents...


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RiotScruffy

Game Designer

02-14-2014
26 of 48 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nielspeterdejong View Post
The second option sounds pretty good! And that is still with Rengar being hypcer charged during that time right?
Yes, the second stealth triggers right as his speed wears off.


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RiotScruffy

Game Designer

02-14-2014
27 of 48 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kholdstare13 View Post
@Scruffy Could you please address concerns over toxicity of a trinket on the Crystal Scar and Twisted Treeline as well as conflicting with Poro Snax on the Howling Abyss? Summoner's Rift is only 25% of your game.
We will probably just make a version of the bonetooth trinket with no active for those maps.


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RiotScruffy

Game Designer

02-14-2014
28 of 48 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by MyDuoSucksD View Post
why are you adding a second free stealth?

talon doesnt get to re stealth if he doesnt kill his target. katarina doesnt get CD resets if someone doesnt die...


I could go on with a list forever, with each of your 118 champions that were designed.

The fact is you shouldnt be rewarded for doing poorly...
Originally we had the second stealth trigger on kill, but we quickly shifted it to a set time because we think it actually allows for some more interesting situations. We want it to be possible for Rengar to go in, not get a kill, then leave if he thinks the fight is going poorly. Alternatively, he could decide to all in with the second leap and trade his life for a kill in some situations. The fixed window has more general usage that doesn't revolve around Rengar being ahead.


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It Hate Me

Member

02-14-2014

Why don't you fix the Skarner remake before moving onto another champion? You took away 2 of his tools (heal and permaslow) and he got nothing in return. Regardless of numbers, he got boned, and he needs some love.


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stealthfox94

Senior Member

02-14-2014

That new E sounds kind of broken.