Rengar Rework Strikes Back

First Riot Post
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LesbianRainbow

Senior Member

02-14-2014

no but really why is rengar getting a rework over like SION or like Urgot or something like that someone that's really under played "to stop his harass in lane" really >_> Bola was soo much fun now its a skill shot so he NOW has to play more passively in lane does this mean they are making him a pure jungler now?,,, I just don't get it where is the Yorick remake or the Sion....as I mentioned...people forgot Urgot was even a Marksman LOL .-. ah wells......................


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Nidmar

Junior Member

02-14-2014

Actually read the riot posts other than the first one and you'll get your answers


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eatsgokuforlunch

Senior Member

02-14-2014

Yes @RiotScruffy We love you for breaking our champ in the best kind of way.Please don't nerf him after release he needs to be op after all the **** treatment he has received since release


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C13Magnum

Member

02-14-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
Hey all, another update on Rengar progress. So far the changes are testing well, but we noticed 2 major things that needed addressing:

-The cooldowns on Q W and E were not matching up well creating a strange pattern for building up ferocity that couldn't really be planned around or mastered
-Rengar has a great time setting himself up for a team fight, finding a backline target and ambusing, but after the fight against his target is over (win or lose) he has no way of getting out or really doing anything meaningful at that point.

So to solve those problems, we're testing 2 new changes, which seem promising:

-Standardize Q W and E cooldowns to 3 12 and 9 at all ranks creating a clear and learn-able combat pattern, the damage per skill level is adjusted to match the new cooldowns
-5 seconds after Rengar unstealths from R he will enter stealth a second time for 3 seconds and be able to leap.

The second change is really interesting: it gives Rengar a fixed window where he is trying to eliminate his target and then can decide if he should run away, try for a second target, or even use his second leap to all in the first target if he failed to kill them initially.
So the restealth is always triggered after 5 seconds? Can you have the ability to hit r and restealth within 5 seconds? I feel like it may be unwieldy to randomly restealth, and would it have the same fade time as the current ult? Meaning it could be delayed for up to 3 seconds if taking damage. I think this is a great change in concept, just not too sure about the whole mandatory restealth. Perhaps have tradeoffs like using the restealth triggers a longer cd on your ult. If he no longer bursts from stealth like he does now then I don't think being able to retrigger the stealth is unhealthy, just gives skilled rengar players more options.


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Nielspeterdejong

Senior Member

02-14-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
Hey all, another update on Rengar progress. So far the changes are testing well, but we noticed 2 major things that needed addressing:

-The cooldowns on Q W and E were not matching up well creating a strange pattern for building up ferocity that couldn't really be planned around or mastered
-Rengar has a great time setting himself up for a team fight, finding a backline target and ambusing, but after the fight against his target is over (win or lose) he has no way of getting out or really doing anything meaningful at that point.

So to solve those problems, we're testing 2 new changes, which seem promising:

-Standardize Q W and E cooldowns to 3 12 and 9 at all ranks creating a clear and learn-able combat pattern, the damage per skill level is adjusted to match the new cooldowns
-5 seconds after Rengar unstealths from R he will enter stealth a second time for 3 seconds and be able to leap.

The second change is really interesting: it gives Rengar a fixed window where he is trying to eliminate his target and then can decide if he should run away, try for a second target, or even use his second leap to all in the first target if he failed to kill them initially.
The second option sounds pretty good! And that is still with Rengar being hypcer charged during that time right?


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Nielspeterdejong

Senior Member

02-14-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
Hey all, another update on Rengar progress. So far the changes are testing well, but we noticed 2 major things that needed addressing:

-The cooldowns on Q W and E were not matching up well creating a strange pattern for building up ferocity that couldn't really be planned around or mastered
-Rengar has a great time setting himself up for a team fight, finding a backline target and ambusing, but after the fight against his target is over (win or lose) he has no way of getting out or really doing anything meaningful at that point.

So to solve those problems, we're testing 2 new changes, which seem promising:

-Standardize Q W and E cooldowns to 3 12 and 9 at all ranks creating a clear and learn-able combat pattern, the damage per skill level is adjusted to match the new cooldowns
-5 seconds after Rengar unstealths from R he will enter stealth a second time for 3 seconds and be able to leap.

The second change is really interesting: it gives Rengar a fixed window where he is trying to eliminate his target and then can decide if he should run away, try for a second target, or even use his second leap to all in the first target if he failed to kill them initially.
Also, will you put more power into his W then? (duration buffs, damage, etc. since you did mention you were going to lower the cooldown of that ability) As well as his empowered Roar?


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ShocknAwem

Senior Member

02-14-2014

Overall this looks good.I play rengar 2 outta 10 matches so i am looking forward to this.


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Haftoof Dustpaw

Junior Member

02-14-2014

Just want to throw in my two cents, I saw an idea a while back to attach a jump to his bola. I think this is a great solution that improves rengar's overall gameplay.

Giving him a second stealth while interesting creates a convoluted mechanic in terms of his ult, I also feel that it might contribute to his current "run away" style play that we see with split pushing, allowing him to leap to a target then stealth away.

Quote:
Originally Posted by C13Magnum View Post
So the restealth is always triggered after 5 seconds? Can you have the ability to hit r and restealth within 5 seconds? I feel like it may be unwieldy to randomly restealth, and would it have the same fade time as the current ult? Meaning it could be delayed for up to 3 seconds if taking damage. I think this is a great change in concept, just not too sure about the whole mandatory restealth. Perhaps have tradeoffs like using the restealth triggers a longer cd on your ult. If he no longer bursts from stealth like he does now then I don't think being able to retrigger the stealth is unhealthy, just gives skilled rengar players more options.
And that's exactly what I mean, it feels convoluted and doesn't contribute to his core focused idea. I've never been a fan of his stealth mechanic but getting from where he is to where he needs to be (many players do travelers boots for that reason) to hunt felt right. I could even see the ability to move through walls (leaping over them?) as an interesting mechanic on the ult but that might be to far of a "Leap" from his current idea, and might contribute to the same "run away" problem.

Where was the bola leap would not only allow other play positions (mid, or fights in lane), but also contribute to his ability to move in combat. I don't think either of these things really break the bank in terms of balance budget due to the attack being a skill shot, but it might be to close to lee-sin's at that point.

It does allow some interesting interaction though where by if you land your attack and they immediately create a gap (good vayne pushing, flash, etc), you can stay on the target, it also provides counter-play during team fights where by protecting a delicate target via blocking is a viable strategy to keep rengar off.


What is the designers core mechanics and implementation ideas on rengar? We got his leap, his stealth and his trinket, can we sacrifice one to improve another idea while taking his overall gameplay into a less toxic more enjoyable and well rounded direction? (give him more movement, let him run faster, ideas?)


Looking forward to more info...


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KLee1007

Junior Member

02-14-2014

With recent change, how many times can Rengar use ferocity skil in a gank? Maximum 3 times?


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Messaiga

Senior Member

02-14-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haftoof Dustpaw View Post
Just want to throw in my two cents, I saw an idea a while back to attach a jump to his bola. I think this is a great solution that improves rengar's overall gameplay.

Giving him a second stealth while interesting creates a convoluted mechanic in terms of his ult, I also feel that it might contribute to his current "run away" style play that we see with split pushing, allowing him to leap to a target then stealth away.

And that's exactly what I mean, it feels convoluted and doesn't contribute to his core focused idea. I've never been a fan of his stealth mechanic but getting from where he is to where he needs to be (many players do travelers boots for that reason) to hunt felt right. I could even see the ability to move through walls (leaping over them?) as an interesting mechanic on the ult but that might be to far of a "Leap" from his current idea, and might contribute to the same "run away" problem.

Where was the bola leap would not only allow other play positions (mid, or fights in lane), but also contribute to his ability to move in combat. I don't think either of these things really break the bank in terms of balance budget due to the attack being a skill shot, but it might be to close to lee-sin's at that point.

It does allow some interesting interaction though where by if you land your attack and they immediately create a gap (good vayne pushing, flash, etc), you can stay on the target, it also provides counter-play during team fights where by protecting a delicate target via blocking is a viable strategy to keep rengar off.


What is the designers core mechanics and implementation ideas on rengar? We got his leap, his stealth and his trinket, can we sacrifice one to improve another idea while taking his overall gameplay into a less toxic more enjoyable and well rounded direction? (give him more movement, let him run faster, ideas?)


Looking forward to more info...
WARNING: SEMI-WALL OF TEXT

I feel as though riot is getting a good job done on how Rengar should feel and play, so this rework seems like an overall improvement to me. Just a few things though, from the way I see it, Rengar's kit on live lacks a few things right now:
Sustained damage
A proper escape
Ability to sustain from a fight
Overall mobility without his Ultimate

I came up with a few ways to solve these, the Rengar rework already contains one of these but I would still like to see it tweaked.

Passive - Unseen Predator: Increase the duration that Rengar may leap after leaving a bush from 0.5 seconds to 0.75 seconds. 1 ferocity decays after 10 seconds from your last used spell, and then another every 3 and 1/3 seconds.

Q - Savagery: Reduced base damage from live, 3 second cooldown at all ranks, still has 100% AD scaling, the attack speed bonus now stacks with itself up to two stacks, and the attack speed bonus is lowered from 30/35/40/45/50% to 37.5%. The Empowered Savagery remains at an additional 100% AD on top of the standard spell and uses the same stacking system, so if you were to use an empowered savagery and then a regular savagery they would both stack up to the maximum 2 total stacks for 75% bonus attack speed.
(Allows Rengar the ability to trade better during prolonged engagements through attacking faster).

W - Battle Roar: His W's bonus armor and magic resist now scale with 20% of his bonus attack damage. Additionally, the duration of Battle Roar's bonus armor and MR will now increase by 0.75 seconds for each auto attack while the bonus is active up to 3 additional seconds, making the bonus last a total of 6 seconds. The damage and scaling of this spell and it's empowered counterpart is left untouched. The healing of the empowered spell is now (as it was on release) 10% of his maximum health.
(Allows Rengar to better sustain from late game fights or extended duels).

E - Bola Strike: Bola Strike is now a skillshot, and upon hitting a target you gain sight of them. Base damage is increased a bit but I do not know exact numbers. Bola Strike may be cast while moving and the slow that this ability applies no longer decays over time.
(This change gives Rengar more mobility in the jungle since he may now have a chance to leap onto a target using his E if a bush is near by, an example being from the bush outside of the blue buff camp onto the golem or one of it's lizards. It also adds chasing power or the option to run from somebody who may be pursuing you).

R - remains the same as it has been entailed by RiotScruffy's 24th post in this thread.