Skarner Rework Follow Through

First Riot Post
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RiotScruffy

Game Designer

02-13-2014
7 of 29 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by corals View Post
This is one of the better critiques, also skarner does feel different and that is a fair critique, player attachment is what makes the game go round.

I think they should lower the slow on his E slightly and every time some one attacks a target or slashes them another slow is added for 1 second. So he can slow a bunch of people slightly then pick a target to stick too, increasing the duration of the slow on that target by 1 second. 3.5 second slow is more up time and an answer to the cool down increase on E, particularly if it affords skarner an extra auto or two to decrease E cool down.
This is a good point, and we try to retain the core appeal of a character when they get reworked and in this case Skarner may have shifted a bit too far away from the CC tank role that he had before. Strengthening his CC seems like the right direction in the follow up to make Skarner closer to what his fans really loved about him before.


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Maulkrieg

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Senior Member

02-13-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mech Lord Yhnmk View Post
Before hand you could invade in the jungle, and kill them via catching them around a corner. Now you can invade and watch them run away. Before if they caught you you could slow them while running away, now you HAVE to fight, and besides catching them weak in their jungle, Lee sin, udyr, hec, vi are all going to wreck you pre6, and if you do get the advantage they will just run away. The e slow is so worthless thats the problem, you can say hes a great dueler but when he should win, they will run away, and when he shouldn't he can't get away. So really buffing his "Dueling potential" makes him pray that an ally hold them down, or they stand still, and by that point why the hell are we not playing master yii?
The greater dueling potential is a myth, btw.

Explain to me how his dueling is better when W attackspeed had 100% uptime before midgame.


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Maulkrieg

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Senior Member

02-13-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
This is actually something that that I agree with, we try to retain the core appeal of a character when they get reworked and in this case Skarner may have shifted a bit too far away from the CC tank role that he had before. Strengthening his CC seems like the right direction in the follow up to make Skarner closer to what his fans really loved about him before.
Is there a reason we can't give Q a movement speed increase (in addition to W) on the 2nd proc, and retain the current setup to allow Skarner to stick, but not permaslow?


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Zartikus

Member

02-13-2014

He really has no flavor without the old Q. That was skarner. Power level of the rework aside, which is pretty obviously low right now, the rework failed on a fundamental level in that it took Skarners true flavor away. Now he's just a few random abilities with little synergy, plus a cool pull ult.


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Mech Lord Yhnmk

Senior Member

02-13-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by corals View Post
This is one of the better critiques, also skarner does feel different and that is a fair critique, player attachment is what makes the game go round.

I think they should lower the slow on his E slightly and every time some one attacks a target or slashes them another slow is added for 1 second. So he can slow a bunch of people slightly then pick a target to stick too, increasing the duration of the slow on that target by 1 second. 3.5 second slow is more up time and an answer to the cool down increase on E, particularly if it affords skarner an extra auto or two to decrease E cool down.
I agree, Of course I think they should also remove the cast time, but at least in this scenario when top lane is raping my ally at tower when I come in I can slow and kill him as opposed to slow and watch him run away, even with red it's hard to stay stuck to champion so you can use skarners passive.


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MajorPain9

Senior Member

02-13-2014

He actually flowed as a character before the rework. Everything about his kit (even E) worked with each other. Now he is just a random pile of abilities thrown together in the name of antifun. Orbwalking someone to keep up your permaslow was one of the most challenging / rewarding payoffs he had.


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Maulkrieg

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Senior Member

02-13-2014

I really wish Scruffy would acknowledge suggestions and such. Instead he makes a bunch of statements that are counter-intuitive to transparency while saying "Don't worry about it! We're working on it!"

Meanwhile we're getting no real feedback about our suggestions, so there's little hope that the next step will be in the right direction.


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Zartikus

Member

02-13-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by MajorPain9 View Post
He actually flowed as a character before the rework. Everything about his kit (even E) worked with each other. Now he is just a random pile of abilities thrown together in the name of antifun. Orbwalking someone to keep up your permaslow was one of the most challenging / rewarding payoffs he had.
SO MUCH OF THIS
Orbwalking the q, autoing in between to keep it going, throwing e's out even though it sucked (ha!) - that was fun. That was Skarner.


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Kalarepa

Senior Member

02-13-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
This is actually something that that I agree with, we try to retain the core appeal of a character when they get reworked and in this case Skarner may have shifted a bit too far away from the CC tank role that he had before. Strengthening his CC seems like the right direction in the follow up to make Skarner closer to what his fans really loved about him before.
I'm sorry, but you still sound like you think that you made new Skarner do more damage for the cost of CC.

Do you realize, how important was the synergy between Skarner's chainslowing, autoattacking and his passive? If he can't chainslow, he will land much less autoattacks, get much less CDR and his overall damage output will be lower.
Unless his target just sits in 1 place and never tries to run away - only in that scenario new Skarner will do more damage.

In other words, you nerfed Skarner's CC and nerfed his damage by shifting the power to wrong skills. And you deleted the thing, that was signature of Skarner in the process.


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King 0f Throws

Junior Member

02-13-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeverelyAutistic View Post
I have played Skarner since Season 2, and before his rework even though he was not a top tier pick, he was still viable with his amazing early game damage, sticking power, and late game peel and initiation. This rework has proven that riot had no idea what they were doing when they reworked Skarner because they took away what made him unique. Gone is Skarner's amazing aoe peel, and the overall threat of him being in melee range of an enemy (latr sticking power). I propose a rework that makes Skarner the champion he deserves to be, a champion that is an absolute monster once he gets into melee range,while still having counter play in the sense that he can be kited (but not severly)

Base stat changes: the only thing that needs to be changed is his mana/mana per level, as well as his mana regen increase his mana pool to 250 (+ 50 per level)and his mana per 5 to 7 per 5 (+ .7 per level)

Reason for change :This mana buff should fix his early dependancy on blue buff which is a huge problem for Skarner at the moment.

Changes to Crystal Slash (Q): Bring back the pre-rework mechanics to Skarner's Q ( no more attack speed stacks, perma slows for dayz), make the slow 35% at all ranks to help Skarner's early ganking pressure (compared to 20%-40% based on rank). Finally, the scaling should change to 60% total AD scaling (compared to 80% bonus AD scaling)

Reason for change: The old Skarner Q made him unique as a champion, and was the reason why you would not want to face an enemy skarner in melee range. Finally, with the change to the scaling on Crystal Slash, it will do a lot more damage early game because it scales with total AD ,and with Skarner's base ad being 130 at level 18, doing a lot of damage without the need to buy any AD.

Changes to Crystalline Exoskeleton (W): Decrease CD to 14 seconds compared to 16. Bring the attack speed back on the W, however, increase the attack speed to 40%-60% based on rank(compared to 30%-50%), while having the attack speed remain even when the shield is broken.remove the ramp up on the movement speed bonus, changing to a steady 25%-35% movement speed increase based on rank. finally, have the scaling on the sheild changed from 80% AP, to 40 percent bonus armor and Majic resist.

Reason for change: These changes will allow Skarner to not rely on a ramp up time to case/escape, which does not have a satisfying pay off for how much movement speed is given (imagine comparing it to Hecarim/Rammus). having the attack speed without the shield needed will allow Skarner to clear exceptionally well. Finally, the scaling changes make the Shield on Skarner quite terrifying buy building tanky (which is what you should be doing on a champion like Skarner). Having a lot of resistances that also giving a larger virtual health pool is also quite strong, so this might need to be toned down a bit, but the synergy is nice.

Changes to Fracture: CD changed to 10 seconds, decrease the range to 600, with the width of the spell increased significantly (around 250). Make the ability being able to cast while moving. Targets who are hit by Fracture are marked for 6 seconds, and when hit by one of Skarner's attacks/Crystal Slash, stun the target for 1 second. If they are hit again, Skarner is healed for 50-150 health based on rank scaling with 5 percent of his bonus health (is only able to heal twice with each cast of Fracture, with the second proc healing only 50 percent of the base/scaling)

Reason for change: This change allows Skarner to gank quite effectively pre 6 (if he is manages to get in range of the target. Having fracture being able to cast while moving will make it feel a lot better when ganking with it. The potential to land an aoe stun works amazing when playing the role as a peeler (which is my personal play style) the duration is short because it should not be overpowering compared to his ult. finally the sustain portion of the spell stays relevant throughout the game, and gives the help needed for lane Skarner.

Let me know what you guys think (Keep in mind that the numbers are not official)
This guy stole my original thread

http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com....php?t=4272323

I hope this proves it,cause I am the one that knows how to bring back Skarner. " I Miss My Kind"

Edit: he only posted this an hour after I did, but I promise I created this thread. Scruffy I hope you read this cause this rework will solve a lot of problems Skarner mains are having currently (R.I.P Skarner, I hope you took Revive)