Skarner Rework Follow Through

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CG DataS

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Senior Member

02-13-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesker1 View Post
I appreciate Skarner's rework - he's lost the permaslow, but he's faster, tankier, and more flexible than ever.

I feel that some people miss the powerful permaslow, but from design point of view, it's pretty toxic to the game (akin to pre-nerf GP) and makes Skarner difficult to balance.

Currently, it feels quite satisfying to land his e, and his monstrous dueling potential is overlooked by many.

With the absence of permaslow biasing people, it is going to take some time for people to fully appreciate Skarner's new powers. I hope you do not hastily retract the rework.
Honestly we'd be lucky if Scruffy even got back on this forum.

But lets look at this point by point: Skarner was not the only, or even strongest in some situations, "perma"slow in the game. So you can't argue that this change is making the game better, as it is only removing it from one underplayed champion, meanwhile mundo is dominating the toplane.
I don't overlook his dueling potential, I just compare it to before, and I find it less effective. They gave him an attack speed buff, but removed the thing that would have made it impactful over a period of time. The new skarner is more akin to a burst dueler then a CC dueler, with all of this damage coming in the 2.5 second slow (minus the gap-close time) and ocne that is over, you fall off unless your building for speed or have alternate slows (items/red). Comparing this to before, where Skarner did his damage over time, but had the ability to slow them, so he could get other allies on them as well. Basiclly, old skarner was a team asset, new skarner has nothing really team-focused outside of his ult.
I don't know about you, but I don't see any flexibility in his kit, if he cannot land the E, he will not be doing anything. That is not flexible, that's lynchpin design.


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corals

Senior Member

02-13-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesker1 View Post
I appreciate Skarner's rework - he's lost the permaslow, but he's faster, tankier, and more flexible than ever.

I feel that some people miss the powerful permaslow, but from design point of view, it's pretty toxic to the game (akin to pre-nerf GP) and makes Skarner difficult to balance.

Currently, it feels quite satisfying to land his e, and his monstrous dueling potential is overlooked by many.

With the absence of permaslow biasing people, it is going to take some time for people to fully appreciate Skarner's new powers. I hope you do not hastily retract the rework.
This is still the reaction people should be having. They act like he didn't get anything to compensate for the loss of two of his mechanics. Outside of the lane the heal felt like extraneous survivability since his shield felt so bad. There were times when I would slowly lose duels even with the heal. Now with all the extra attack speed skarner duels harder then before.


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Maulkrieg

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02-13-2014

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Originally Posted by CookiesArmy View Post
Literally all i have to say is Riot is full of ****ing ******* for doing this ****. This rework just proves that riot is just shooting in the dark with their ideas...This is literally THE WORST rework to date...the **** you are doing to this game is sickening riot get your **** together...
While I can't say I disagree, there's really no need to be so...obscene.

Being harsh is one thing, but is the cursing really needed?


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CG DataS

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02-13-2014

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Originally Posted by corals View Post
Now with all the extra attack speed skarner duels harder then before.
He doesn't duel harder, he just duels quicker. Be careful not to mistake the two.


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CookiesArmy

Member

02-13-2014

This rework is ****ing retarded....


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corals

Senior Member

02-13-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Student Diver View Post
Honestly we'd be lucky if Scruffy even got back on this forum.

But lets look at this point by point: Skarner was not the only, or even strongest in some situations, "perma"slow in the game. So you can't argue that this change is making the game better, as it is only removing it from one underplayed champion, meanwhile mundo is dominating the toplane.
I don't overlook his dueling potential, I just compare it to before, and I find it less effective. They gave him an attack speed buff, but removed the thing that would have made it impactful over a period of time. The new skarner is more akin to a burst dueler then a CC dueler, with all of this damage coming in the 2.5 second slow (minus the gap-close time) and ocne that is over, you fall off unless your building for speed or have alternate slows (items/red). Comparing this to before, where Skarner did his damage over time, but had the ability to slow them, so he could get other allies on them as well. Basiclly, old skarner was a team asset, new skarner has nothing really team-focused outside of his ult.
I don't know about you, but I don't see any flexibility in his kit, if he cannot land the E, he will not be doing anything. That is not flexible, that's lynchpin design.

This is one of the better critiques, also skarner does feel different and that is a fair critique, player attachment is what makes the game go round.

I think they should lower the slow on his E slightly and every time some one attacks a target or slashes them another slow is added for 1 second. So he can slow a bunch of people slightly then pick a target to stick too, increasing the duration of the slow on that target by 1 second. 3.5 second slow is more up time and an answer to the cool down increase on E, particularly if it affords skarner an extra auto or two to decrease E cool down.


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Maulkrieg

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02-13-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by corals View Post
This is still the reaction people should be having. They act like he didn't get anything to compensate for the loss of two of his mechanics. Outside of the lane the heal felt like extraneous survivability since his shield felt so bad. There were times when I would slowly lose duels even with the heal. Now with all the extra attack speed skarner duels harder then before.
I really don't know what Skarner you're playing.

The longer ramp-up means he's doing less damage than before, since most duels don't last that long. Considering you usually had near 100% uptime on your shield with old skarner after a certain point, there's absolutely no way to justify the current state of this rework with the constant attackspeed 'buff'.

He effectively got nothing to compensate for the loss of his two mechanics. He even got his W movement speed a net nerf. The new MS doesn't even break even with the old until 3/4 through it.


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Dessembrae

Senior Member

02-13-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
This thread is about follow up, and we are actively looking to improve the changes to make them something that Skarner players and all players are satisfied with.

The most frequent complaint I'm seeing is that a lot of the CC power that was core to Skarner's appeal is lowered, and that it's something that is core to his identity. So, with balance changes aside for the Skarner followup, this is something that we can try to bring back. His current pattern has more dueling/fighting power but less CC, but we can shift some of his power back into more impactful CC that will bring him closer to CC tank role that he had before.

Edit: if this is not a direction that you would like to see more of Skarner's power shifted into that is ok too, I'm collecting feedback.
I for one think it would be a nice QoL change to allow Skarner to cast his E while chasing, but to compensate, lower the %slow from his current live values. Part of the issue is his sticking power, and allowing this to be cast while moving will certainly help.


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Maulkrieg

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02-13-2014

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Originally Posted by Dessembrae View Post
I for one think it would be a nice QoL change to allow Skarner to cast his E while chasing, but to compensate, lower the %slow from his current live values. Part of the issue is his sticking power, and allowing this to be cast while moving will certainly help.
Really? You think Skarner needs a compensation nerf+buff now?

I'm actually laughing.


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Mech Lord Yhnmk

Senior Member

02-13-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by corals View Post
This is still the reaction people should be having. They act like he didn't get anything to compensate for the loss of two of his mechanics. Outside of the lane the heal felt like extraneous survivability since his shield felt so bad. There were times when I would slowly lose duels even with the heal. Now with all the extra attack speed skarner duels harder then before.
Before hand you could invade in the jungle, and kill them via catching them around a corner. Now you can invade and watch them run away. Before if they caught you you could slow them while running away, now you HAVE to fight, and besides catching them weak in their jungle, Lee sin, udyr, hec, vi are all going to wreck you pre6, and if you do get the advantage they will just run away. The e slow is so worthless thats the problem, you can say hes a great dueler but when he should win, they will run away, and when he shouldn't he can't get away. So really buffing his "Dueling potential" makes him pray that an ally hold them down, or they stand still, and by that point why the hell are we not playing master yii?