Why is CertainlyT a game designer?

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Zileas

VP of Game Design

02-08-2014
3 of 5 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonsBane View Post
Well said. People also have to remember that (or at least they used to) Live balance decides their final numbers, not the designers. IE; Xypherous says he hates riven and Naut's current states. He designed Riven to have lower base damage all around (Her ults steroid and all that) and lower health regen (at one point she had the highest) but live balanced buffed those. Naut was supposed to have 280 MS (back when 300 was the lowest) to make up for his galactic f***tun of CC yet live balance changed this as well. Months later he gets nerfed for all his CC.

So remember guys, it's okay to call out the designers but they're NOT the ones who get the final say.

Except in the case of Yasuo. Fk that guy. (<3 you CT) People need to explore his counters. Just made a yasou go 0-5 and they surrendered at 20 because he fp'd him. Swain mains rejoice our time is upon us.
I mean, it's everyone's responsibility in game design to a degree. Yasuo balance state is formally now in the hands of the core gameplay team as the active decider, but CertainlyT, the core gameplay team, Morello, myself, etc all are responsible for problems and have some influence to fix them where they exist, and I don't think it's unfair for the OP to thus criticize on this basis.


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Hellioning

Senior Member

02-08-2014

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Originally Posted by Zileas View Post
That is a totally fair critique on most of those. I think the double crit solves a specific power-curve goal that a melee carry pattern benefits from in a way that fits into the game. I agree that the Yasuo and Thresh passive are harder to defend, though, would likely be defended as "the character needed SOMETHING there to get to powerful enough". It would of course be better to replace with something that created a larger amount of gameplay, but we tend to prioritize filling in the key components of the character to be awesome, then adding power if we still need to in remaining areas.
I guess I could get that, but Thresh could do exactly zero damage and still be viable, entirely from his displacement and ally saving prowess. Not to mention you can't dodge auto attacks, so it's free damage he gets on you if you're within his auto range (Which you are nerfing, so yay). It just seems to be there because there was no real reason not to be there. Of course, Thresh is probably the second best support in the game right now, and I think lowering or removing it entirely would be a good way to nerf him, if you think that's something that needs to be done.


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The MechE

Senior Member

02-08-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zileas View Post
That is a totally fair critique on most of those. I think the double crit solves a specific power-curve goal that a melee carry pattern benefits from in a way that fits into the game. I agree that the Yasuo and Thresh passive are harder to defend, though, would likely be defended as "the character needed SOMETHING there to get to powerful enough". It would of course be better to replace with something that created a larger amount of gameplay, but we tend to prioritize filling in the key components of the character to be awesome, then adding power if we still need to in remaining areas.
What? Thresh passive is amazing. What's wrong with Thresh's soul passive?

Or do you mean the passive on his E? I guess that's not really necessary. It's kind of nice to be able to do some damage though.


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Mokkun

Senior Member

02-08-2014

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Originally Posted by Hellioning View Post
My primary problem with CertainlyT is that he makes these interesting, fun to play kits, and then adds stuff they don't really need. Like, Thresh has CC and utility for days, why on earth does he need free damage on his autoattacks for harass? Why does Yasuo need double crit chance, given he already gets 50% bonus armor pen for successfully ulting? Why does Darius get to do all three types of damage when that sort of thing on Irelia was incredibly frowned upon?

I also have issues that they are a nightmare to balance, but that's simply because most of the current kits are kinda terrible.
Darius does 3 kinds of damage because at the time he was built, tanks were so powerful with resistance stacking, that it was deemed necessary to also give him magic damage, just to make him do enough damage. It made sense in the setting, in the long run, it's caused problems.
Thresh is based on something else to go with his soul stacking mechanic.
F* if I understand why Yasuo has bonus crit chance, because it also results in him having a lowered crit damage to balance, which makes a lot of the characters effects obtuse or invisible to new players.


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BrightNooblar

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Senior Member

02-08-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zileas View Post
I agree that Darius while conceptually strong has a lot of game mechanical issues in his pattern, especially around counterplay on the R, and I'm sure he would agree to.
I seem to recall a red, I assume CertainlyT, posting about how there was a design where Darius would gain % arpen on his ulti target, based on blood stacks on them. Meaning at full stacks it would be true damage, but with no stacks it would be physical damage. I sorta wish that had been the system that was used, as it would have allowed him to keep his reset power he originally had.

Either way though, I'm pretty sure CerT has openly told GD that Darius was too strong to start, and hard to balance after. GD just forgets.


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Zileas

VP of Game Design

02-08-2014
4 of 5 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mechanical Heart View Post
What? Thresh passive is amazing. What's wrong with Thresh's soul passive?

Or do you mean the passive on his E? I guess that's not really necessary. It's kind of nice to be able to do some damage though.
The soul passive is awesome. Was referring to the damage. I think it's fine, just saying it's not unreasonable to criticize.


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Silence Falls

Senior Member

02-08-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zileas View Post
I mean, it's everyone's responsibility in game design to a degree. Yasuo balance state is formally now in the hands of the core gameplay team as the active decider, but CertainlyT, the core gameplay team, Morello, myself, etc all are responsible for problems and have some influence to fix them where they exist, and I don't think it's unfair for the OP to thus criticize on this basis.
Why am I upvoting all of Zileas' posts? Do I agree with him? Am I fan girl? Do I hate Volibear? All yes.


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Psychotic Man

Senior Member

02-08-2014

You know **** just got real, when reds appear on a riot champ designer callout thread.


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Mirage Night

Senior Member

02-08-2014

I wouldn't mind seeing him on the rework team, maybe he can do something about Eve.


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Hellioning

Senior Member

02-08-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychotic Man View Post
You know **** just got real, when reds appear on a riot champ designer callout thread.
Nah, it would have gotten realer if CertainlyT responded, but he's probably sleeping, like a rational person.

Thankfully, Zileas isn't rational.