I love how people think Kassadin and Yasuo are not OP because they have lane counters

First Riot Post
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

hashinshin

Senior Member

02-08-2014

Also the problem I have with this conversation is we've reached an impasse where the only reasonable move I can make is the following:

I have not seen your stats, I do not know your stats, I do not know where or how you get your stats, I do not know what methods you used to obtain your stats and how trustworth they are. As such I'm gonna make like Mac and say "those don't sound right but I don't know enough about your stats to dispute it."

I'd like to ascertain an outcome here but it's impossible to unless I get unrestricted access to your guys' database and tools to mine it which has a likely chance of 0.0001%

I'd say 0% but there is a chance you could could suddenly just go crazy.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Zileas

VP of Game Design

02-08-2014
5 of 12 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nazzadan View Post
To be fair there is decent data to show that the team that gets first blood usually, statistically wins the game. And Yasuo/Kassadin's winrate being slightly over 50% is overshadowed moreso by their incredible banrate. In my experience at least, they are not banned because they are an annoyance like Bronzodia(Amumu, Malphite, Blitz), they are banned because whoever you send mid is going to lose if they go unbanned unless they are exceptional at the champ they selected, or if the Yasuo/Kass is brain dead and locked them in because they aren't banned
First blood is correlated to win, absolutely. It's less correlated now than before the season 2014 changes. Snowball is fine, it's just a question of how strong it should be. When it's too strong, it ultimately makes the game less interesting. When it's too weak at some point in the game, good play isn't rewarded.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Impetual

Senior Member

02-08-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morior Invictis View Post
So you're telling me its totally fine that Yasuo is 99.53% pick/ban in all levels of ranked, because he only wins 52% of his games?

Oh boy.
That's the community being dumb, it's not Riot's fault. Why ban a champ with a 51.66% (current number) winrate? Surely, there are better candidates to ban...and if there isn't... then this game must be extremely well balanced for a champion with 51.66% winrate to be considered OP.

Heck, his winrate in ranked solo que in challenger division is 47.97% on Feb 5th. He is not OP.On Feb 5th, across all levels of play, Yasuo peaked at a 51.54% winrate at platinum. It was lower in every other division
Reference - http://www.lolking.net/champions/yas...1x1#statistics


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

VoidInsanity

Senior Member

02-08-2014

Indeed Hashinshin. Basically riots approach to this game is this -

"We have this rock that keeps tigers away - it's working honest. What do you mean you see tigers? You lie, we don't see any tigers, the rock is working!"

*2 weeks later*

"Yo guys we decided to Murder some tigers since there were too many for the rock that keeps tigers away to deal with. The rock works, it really does. Everything is fine! See look, we killed some tigers and now there really are none this time! Our rock works!"


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

SlitherySnakeSex

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Member

02-08-2014

Seriously Kassadin needs to get off the bench once in a while.
Name:  Tired.jpg
Views: 2127
Size:  205.8 KB


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Zileas

VP of Game Design

02-08-2014
6 of 12 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by hashinshin View Post
Also the problem I have with this conversation is we've reached an impasse where the only reasonable move I can make is the following:

I have not seen your stats, I do not know your stats, I do not know where or how you get your stats, I do not know what methods you used to obtain your stats and how trustworth they are. As such I'm gonna make like Mac and say "those don't sound right but I don't know enough about your stats to dispute it."

I'd like to ascertain an outcome here but it's impossible to unless I get unrestricted access to your guys' database and tools to mine it which has a likely chance of 0.0001%

I'd say 0% but there is a chance you could could suddenly just go crazy.
I mean, it's a question of my credibility. You can either take the position that you believe I'm being honest, or take the position that I'd explicitly lie to win a late-night forum argument that will have very little effect on the success of LoL but could really damage my personal reputation.

I guess you could try to cross-verify the data elsewhere since a lot of game records are taken by third-party sites.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Naju

Senior Member

02-08-2014

I remember back when Yasuo first came out and you guys said you felt he was in a good position.
Laughed my ass off, he's absolutely the most broken champ thats come out, almost as bad as release Xin.
His passive's are too strong and his CD's are too short, either have one or the other, not both.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

HaIfhearted

Senior Member

02-08-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zileas View Post
When it's too weak at some point in the game, good play isn't rewarded.
I would have to disagree with this.
As a Dominion player, I have learned how to play in situations with almost no snowballing at all

Even without snowballing, good play is rewarded by things like kills, objectives, surviving, and just feeling good about how badass you just were.
Good play doesn't need to put you "ahead" in terms of xp/gold for it to be satisfying, because good play is already innately rewarding.

Conversely, bad play doesn't need to put you "behind" in gold and xp, because its already innately punishing (opens enemy team to objectives, leaves you dead, lets enemies escape, and can singlehandedly lose you the game lategame)


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

hashinshin

Senior Member

02-08-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zileas View Post
I mean, it's a question of my credibility. You can either take the position that you believe I'm being honest, or take the position that I'd explicitly lie to win a late-night forum argument that will have very little effect on the success of LoL but could really damage my personal reputation.

I guess you could try to cross-verify the data elsewhere since a lot of game records are taken by third-party sites.
Or I could just think that maybe your stats are wrong and you're saying wrong stats truthfully. Much like my brother believes Microsoft is doing <insert XYZ conspiracy theory here> because he read it on 4chan. He believes it fully, but it's not true. So he's not LYING.

You're an awful pessimist Zileas, thinking I immediately think you're lying to me to win late night forum discussions. In fact, I was more inclined to believe your stats than to not believe them, I just have difficulty believing things somebody said on the internet and we should totally just believe them.

It could be many things:

Snowballing at bronze could have substantially decreased while snowballing at challenger (me, I'm challenger) hasn't changed at all. Net result? 15% decrease in snowballing. Decrease effecting me? None at all.

Faulty association: Something changed OTHER than the anti-snowballing mechanics to cause games to snowball less. For example, what if the assassin meta nerfs and tank buffs made it easier for teams to come back when they weren't getting 1 shot all the time?

Oops you looked at the wrong numbers: Oops, my bad.

Just bad data correlations: You drew a correlation and there simply wasn't one. For example look at: Psychology.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Deft Or Right

Senior Member

02-08-2014

I'll believe Riot's numbers and statistics over 3rd party sites.