I love how people think Kassadin and Yasuo are not OP because they have lane counters

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Raichu Tall Tail

Member

02-07-2014

so either you beat them really hard in lane, and I mean really hard, or they come back and destroy you mid game

kassadin and yasuo win lane by default if you don't completely zone them out


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CynicalGiant

Senior Member

02-07-2014

they can just roam with their insane mobility


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Jiggle

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Senior Member

02-07-2014

That's a weird love fetish, thanks for sharing it with us.


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WHERES DA TEAM

Senior Member

02-07-2014

Yasuo doesn't come back and destroy you mid game. Yasuo has a terrible mid game. Yasuo comes back and destroys you late game. (Like almost all ADCs, ranged or melee, do.)


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Zileas

VP of Game Design

02-07-2014
1 of 12 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raichu Tall Tail View Post
so either you beat them really hard in lane, and I mean really hard, or they come back and destroy you mid game

kassadin and yasuo win lane by default if you don't completely zone them out
In the case of Kassadin, being OP or not is not what really drives his frustration level, it's more than in a lot of situations, he will just execute his thing, and either succeed or fail entirely on his execution and stats -- not based on enemy reaction. In other words -- no potential for rich counterplay.

Champions like that tend to feel snowballey and aren't fun to play against.

We do need to deal with these situations, and intend to gradually do so.

I agree that the existence of a lane counter is not 'enough'. We want all likely match-ups to be interesting, and much prefer 'soft' counters to hard ones.


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Morior Invictis

Senior Member

02-07-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zileas View Post
In the case of Kassadin, being OP or not is not what really drives his frustration level, it's more than in a lot of situations, he will just execute his thing, and either succeed or fail entirely on his execution and stats -- not based on enemy reaction. In other words -- no potential for rich counterplay.

Champions like that tend to feel snowballey and aren't fun to play against.

We do need to deal with these situations, and intend to gradually do so.

I agree that the existence of a lane counter is not 'enough'. We want all likely match-ups to be interesting, and much prefer 'soft' counters to hard ones.
So when you say gradually... can we expect some changes on Kassadin coming to live soon? Because its been months... nearly half a year and nothing has changed for him.


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Impetual

Senior Member

02-07-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raichu Tall Tail View Post
so either you beat them really hard in lane, and I mean really hard, or they come back and destroy you mid game

kassadin and yasuo win lane by default if you don't completely zone them out
They're both pubstompers. They're strong against players with little game experience. Kassadin may be slightly OP as well, but Yasuo is fine. Most players just don't know how to deal with him yet.


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UroniJKL

Senior Member

02-07-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zileas View Post
In the case of Kassadin, being OP or not is not what really drives his frustration level, it's more than in a lot of situations, he will just execute his thing, and either succeed or fail entirely on his execution and stats -- not based on enemy reaction. In other words -- no potential for rich counterplay.

Champions like that tend to feel snowballey and aren't fun to play against.

We do need to deal with these situations, and intend to gradually do so.

I agree that the existence of a lane counter is not 'enough'. We want all likely match-ups to be interesting, and much prefer 'soft' counters to hard ones.
So Zil, curious what you think of Yasuo. He's currently at 99.53% pick/ban rate in solo queue, which is the highest I've ever seen outside of release week. What's your opinion on his current state of balance?


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Zileas

VP of Game Design

02-07-2014
2 of 12 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morior Invictis View Post
So when you say gradually... can we expect some changes on Kassadin coming to live soon? Because its been months... nearly half a year and nothing has changed for him.
I actually don't know the specifics on that as I don't manage the core gameplay team day-to-day, but we would want to do something to him at some point to keep him awesome to play, but with better counterplay.

It's a question of priorities, and we spent a lot of energy on the 2014 season changes which were intended to, among other things, resolve some general snowballing and counterplay problems broadly (and thus make the game more fun broadly). We'd rather focus effort on resolving broad sets of these problems due to the bang for the buck, but we will get to outlier champions eventually as well, and always have some effort going on towards them (as evidenced by the ongoing remakes and reworks).

In other news, we would love to pick up a few more experienced game designers who really, really know LoL and find these types of problems fascinating. Feel free to apply if you are reading this and match that profile...


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Impetual

Senior Member

02-07-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by UroniJKL View Post
So Zil, curious what you think of Yasuo. He's currently at 99.53% pick/ban rate in solo queue, which is the highest I've ever seen outside of release week.
His winrate is 51.59% - pretty close to even.

He's strong, but a little short of OP. The majority of the player base just has a skewed perception of him since he was released recently and most players are not used to dealing with him.


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