Hell Riot. I love Diana. Lets talk about her please.

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longhair fox

Junior Member

02-03-2014

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Originally Posted by MaxReeboBand View Post
Or possibly make pale cascades base lower and increase the ratio to .6 or .55 and remove the doubling up of the shield if all are detonated but take it back to its original purpose and increase the duration. When I think of a full moon I also automatically think of blood (I.e. werewolves, vampires and for some reason their is an increase in violence and murder) and health is relative to it so for W let its defensive purpose scale by health and ap but have a larger scaling ratio on health and lower ratio on ap encouraging people who want to build bruiser to get health items over ap which would still make the shield useful for bruisers. But at the same time increase the ap ratio to .6 on the offensive aspect (the detonation) to make it more useful for an assassin. This would still keep the bruiser aspects burst in check because they are forced to build more health to get the survival they need to stay in the fight but keeps thwre burst down because they cant build as much ap without being blown up. . Her atk spd also needs a buff I suggest another use for her shields health scaling. Bonus health should also give bonus atk speed and to prevent it fron being abused by people who want to build assassin you have to reach a certain amount of bonus health to start the scaling of bonus atk spd.

As for assassin build path I suggest the ability to be allowed to escape by allowing yourself to target an ally but its cooldown is not reset it gives incentive to not want use your R again to burst a target which gets rid of your escape. Like I said before to prevent qrr abuse a target without moonlight thats ulted to takes a percentage of less damage. I think that the ratio for crescent strike (Q) should be raised by .1 . Lunar rush (R) should have its ratio raised by .1 and its range increased to 800.

Vesh,what are your thoughts/feelings on these suggested changes?

Just a thought, have you guys ever thought about giving Diana an Astronaut skin? In a way it could be in honor of the first few women to go to space such as Sally Ride and Valentina Tereshkova.
I really like these changes but i think it is too much of a buff to assassin diana compared to her bruiser side. All depending on her health scaling to her shield. To fix this a change to her moonfall to have larger slow scaling would do the trick as right now it just feels very bad to level.


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Argent Heretic

Senior Member

02-03-2014

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Originally Posted by longhair fox View Post
I really like these changes but i think it is too much of a buff to assassin diana compared to her bruiser side. All depending on her health scaling to her shield. To fix this a change to her moonfall to have larger slow scaling would do the trick as right now it just feels very bad to level.
Well another change I suggested well multiple times already is to allow Moonfall (E) to push or pull like the moon does to the ocean tides. E once to pull, E twice quickly to push but you can only do one. This would give aggro and deaggro and could deny or start a team fight. However it would need a longer cooldown to compensate for the increased utility. Im not sure but I think when pushing there be a longer cooldown period. Moonfalls slow could also possibly scale on health.


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EdouardIII

Junior Member

02-03-2014

Quick idea Vesh, perhaps you could have the Moonlight interaction with her ultimate reduce ulti cooldown by 75-80% and buff the range or reduce cast time on her e to compensate. That should reduce the "insta pop" that's not fun to play against, and make her Moonfall feel like you are drawing people in rather than simply keeping them in melee range.


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Lellian

Junior Member

02-03-2014

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Originally Posted by rabbalian View Post
Diana is by far my favorite champion, and I guess I don't see why people think she has an identity crisis?

As a company that, basically, mass produces dozens of champions to play as, you want each champion to feel unique, specific, and different from other champions. Diana is precisely that because you said, "Hey, what if we had an assassin who traded escapes for tankiness?" Isn't that more or less what the elevator pitch was for her? If she sits in between this place of assassin and fight then...good, right? That's her one-of-a-kind place in the roster.

You value uniqueness, but you'll shoehorn her into one end of her spectrum?

As a company, you're never going to want to put out a champion that feels too similar to one you've released previously. No matter how you change her here, in regards to assassin or fighter, she'll only be able to change so much. You'll make her fit better into one of those roles, then one day in the future you'll think, "Hey, let's make a champion who's a tanky assassin! Well, we can't because Diana fits that role and we should only put out champions who play differently from each other."

As you should! Because you guys did great on Diana and knocked it out of the park! You had one shot to fill that niche with a champion and she's a fantastic one at that!

3v3s are my favorite mode to play, too, and she's great there. It's awesome to charge in, whether on TT or SR, pop a W and deal sustained damage on top of it all because you built Nashor's Tooth and a Lichbane.

She's in a good spot now. She's not weak, she's a strong pick that can fill multiple roles in 5v5. She has a kit that'll never be outdated. "Identity crisis" sounds like something that's problematic, but she's still a strong champion so I guess I fail to see the problem.

I love Diana and I want to see the best for her, but I'm hesitant about any core changes like this.

You should also put the helmet back on her Dark Valkyrie skin
I agree, also I love playing assassin diana because it makes you think twice before jumping into a fight, you have to make sure you can kill whoever you're jumping into because you won't have any escapes, its not like many other assassins (ahri for example) that can jump into a fight and if it goes bad they can just use a CC or mobility skill to get out, with diana once you're in you either kill or die.
As for people saying that there's no way to counter her full combo (Q-R-EW-[Q if possible]R) this is just not true, if you use zhonya just after she goes in you can easily escape most of her damage and also leave her with all skills on cooldown and it'll probably reset her passive before if goes out too, same goes for any champions with a stun or snare, you just use it once she jumps in and move away.
I see people wanting her to become more like a bruiser and saying that her passive makes her perfect for that, I kind of disagree as I put nashors on my build so that I can do my 3 autos and trigger her passive in a single quick combo and burst down enemies instead of using is to deal consistent dmg instead of burst, if those changes eventually happen to make diana more of a bruiser I don't think AP diana will be good anymore, we would probably see hybrids since she would have tankiness, ap and ad dmg, and also a hybrid character with good defenses always means an unstoppable killing machine since the hybrid items all give you a very good ammount of lifesteal and spell vamp at the same time (looking at you guinsoo and hextec gunblade), so they not only do a lot of dmg but they also never die and are super hard to counter since you have to build 2 types of defense instead of one


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Joe Shmo 101

Junior Member

02-03-2014

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Originally Posted by Vesh View Post
I think one of her core quirks as a champion is that her sense of humor is a little... off. Personally I love the fact that she lust does the one "hah." It feels appropriate for a champion that doesn't have much to laugh about. (this is personal opinion)
The thing is that she has a fantastic laugh tied to her jokes, but her /laugh command isn't nearly as satisfying.


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Argent Heretic

Senior Member

02-03-2014

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Originally Posted by Joe Shmo 101 View Post
The thing is that she has a fantastic laugh tied to her jokes, but her /laugh command isn't nearly as satisfying.
Yeah, i agree. Her joke laugh is cute but the actual laugh is one that seems more like a scoff or a mock then an actual laugh. I don't mind it because it fits her personality but it is something notable.


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Vesh

Game Designer

02-03-2014
19 of 19 Riot Posts

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Originally Posted by Maximum Jarvan View Post
Vesh I am a little upset that your first reply back to this thread was kn the VO but at least you came back. Can we please just revert some of the past nerfs and see if that helps her performance rate some without pushing her over the top first? I really don't think we need to a complete kit overhaul or turn her into a fighter. Someone pointed out that right now she has her own niche which is cool and I think we should appreciate that instead of taking it out of the game. She just needs a bit more damage and she will be fine. I am not asking for her shield ratio to go up or anything like that.

I know you think burst is toxic but remember that there is a class that can right click you and just win after two to three seconds which feels way more toxic when your mistake is I could be right clicked.
I still think you're misrepresenting what I've been saying a bit. At least once (and I think more) in this thread I have said I don't think she needs any dramatic changes. I think we all want a healthy and viable Diana who has fun interactive gameplay for both teams, and what I'm suggesting is that increasing the time/effort it takes to kill a target, but giving her more tools to accomplish that task, is a good way to accomplish this. Diana is a champion that should be focused on her autoattacks as well as her spells. She has that awesome moonblade and passive for a reason, and I feel that highlighting that and finding better ways to synergize her autoattacks with her spells is something that (hopefully) most Diana players would find cool.


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Gospel Noctis

Senior Member

02-03-2014

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Originally Posted by Vesh View Post
I still think you're misrepresenting what I've been saying a bit. At least once (and I think more) in this thread I have said I don't think she needs any dramatic changes. I think we all want a healthy and viable Diana who has fun interactive gameplay for both teams, and what I'm suggesting is that increasing the time/effort it takes to kill a target, but giving her more tools to accomplish that task, is a good way to accomplish this. Diana is a champion that should be focused on her autoattacks as well as her spells. She has that awesome moonblade and passive for a reason, and I feel that highlighting that and finding better ways to synergize her autoattacks with her spells is something that (hopefully) most Diana players would find cool.
You want her to rely on her autos? Fine, lets pursue this line of thought. How do you propose she live long enough for her passive to kill people when only 1 out of 3 of her auto attacks matter? She's not very tanky, her base attack speed isn't that great, she doesn't have very good cc, and her passive doesn't do that much damage without a lot of ap. What do you propose to overcome these obstacles?


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Alorasence

Senior Member

02-03-2014

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Originally Posted by Vesh View Post
I still think you're misrepresenting what I've been saying a bit. At least once (and I think more) in this thread I have said I don't think she needs any dramatic changes. I think we all want a healthy and viable Diana who has fun interactive gameplay for both teams, and what I'm suggesting is that increasing the time/effort it takes to kill a target, but giving her more tools to accomplish that task, is a good way to accomplish this. Diana is a champion that should be focused on her autoattacks as well as her spells. She has that awesome moonblade and passive for a reason, and I feel that highlighting that and finding better ways to synergize her autoattacks with her spells is something that (hopefully) most Diana players would find cool.

I think some of the frustration is the terminology we are using to discuss her. The amorphous nature of "fighter" and "bruiser" are irritating the players who have played her since release.

There is some fear too, that all these upvoted comments about her being altered into an engage tank, are the majority opinion. But again, the base of players who have become accustomed to Diana as she was originally designed, find that idea a foreign cancer being shoved onto their favorite character by people with only passive skin in the game.

And lastly, frustration at the time table. We know that any changes to her design will take a huge amount of time. And remember, from our point of view, Diana hasn't sincerely been a solid pick for around a year.

So for a year or so now, when I've picked Diana in ranked (often), I know in the back of my mind that I have picked her because I like her, and that I am risking my chances of winning and my teams chances of winning, for not picking Fizz, Orianna, Lissandra, or Gragas, who accomplish the same things better than she does.


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Argent Heretic

Senior Member

02-03-2014

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Originally Posted by Vesh View Post
I still think you're misrepresenting what I've been saying a bit. At least once (and I think more) in this thread I have said I don't think she needs any dramatic changes. I think we all want a healthy and viable Diana who has fun interactive gameplay for both teams, and what I'm suggesting is that increasing the time/effort it takes to kill a target, but giving her more tools to accomplish that task, is a good way to accomplish this. Diana is a champion that should be focused on her autoattacks as well as her spells. She has that awesome moonblade and passive for a reason, and I feel that highlighting that and finding better ways to synergize her autoattacks with her spells is something that (hopefully) most Diana players would find cool.
I dont disagree, i love diana and i certainly want the best for her. You are right she does not need drastic changes that is why i suggested minor buffs that could be tested on the pbe. I believe it is more your guys job on how big or small these changes are. Thanks for your feedback,thoughts and opinions it is greatly appreciated.