Ironstylus: "We're on track to release a VU every month or so."

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Thryale

Senior Member

02-03-2014

Hello Mr. Parrot. I greatly appreciate what you are doing here, and I understand why you like the community beta but I still dislike it. I'm not saying that seeking a better venue for discussion is bad, far from it. I just dislike the reddit style of posting.

I've tried leaving comments on the news page now and then, but I just feel like no one is gonna read my post because it automatically sinks so far low that no one will bother looking for it to give it the upvotes it needs to be seen. I also dislike how the reddit style heavily encourages a hive mind like mentality in the community. Also, another reason for my dislike is because I have a hard time following the discussion because it is not in chronological order, so I feel lost and have a hard time getting the context of the posts.

I understand that from a developer point of view that this method will be more palatable, but from a community stand point, I just don't see it as superior or better.


That aside, I do appreciate all that you have done for this community and hope that the haters don't get you down.


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IronStylus

Sr. Concept Artist

02-03-2014
49 of 78 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by zitchy14 View Post
Except with the forum system, you still respond to people who come in later. This thread is four days old and you are responding to new posters. With reddit, if you aren't there within the first few hours, good luck getting your opinion in.

Plus, you already have a subreddit where reds post. Why do we need two reddits? I'm on a forum because it encourages discussion. I'm not on reddit because only the most popular opinion is seen.

Forums are for discussion or debate while Reddit is just a loud megaphone.
I'm going to ask the beta team if discussions inside threads can be broken out, and shown almost like traditional vBulletin threads inside nested comment systems. That way maybe we can have the best of both worlds. Or maybe we can have a system that can have people opt for a comment thread to be busted out into a new thread altogether. Point being, the new system is far more agile and has many more features.


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zMajin

Senior Member

02-03-2014

Everyone should start migrating to the community beta so we can turn IronStylus's vision to a reality. It would be a lot easier to navigate and get answers only to the questions that deserve a response. Riot should push the CB harder and encourage people to leave this outdated format behind!


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xGetxNastyx

Senior Member

02-03-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
The first comment in there has 103 upvotes, and I've addressed the first few comments.

I'd suggest you re-evaluate and head over there. That's where I'll be focusing my time answering questions on the Sion subject, it's simply easier to actually talk to people that way and address sentiments and look at popular ideas.
I just wanna thank you for taking the time to come and talk to the community i really enjoyed reading though your posts and you brought back some of the hope i had lost from riot because of the way all the reds just fell off and no updates on content. SO i kindly thank you for taking some time out of your day to talk to us!


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Splinterheart

Senior Member

02-03-2014

I have no idea why people dislike the community beta. It seems really easy to follow discussions and I can't wait till it goes live. Vast improvement over these forums imo.


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SlumlordThanatos

Senior Member

02-03-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
I'm going to ask the beta team if discussions inside threads can be broken out, and shown almost like traditional vBulletin threads inside nested comment systems. That way maybe we can have the best of both worlds. Or maybe we can have a system that can have people opt for a comment thread to be busted out into a new thread altogether. Point being, the new system is far more agile and has many more features.
It already can.

There's an HTML command you can type into the address bar that arranges the beta site in a flat layout. They just refuse to support it.


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Linna Excel

Senior Member

02-03-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
Again, here we are, this discussion has been hijacked from VU's to forum venues. There's at least 3 different discussions happening. VU's in general, specific character VU's, forum discussions, etc. That is simply not viable. In the new venue this would most likely stay on track, doing the service to the people who are here to talk about the subject at hand.
Agreed. There is a lot going on in this thread and a lot has to be juggled because of it.


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Thaddeus Maxwell

Member

02-03-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
I'm not contractually obligated, I'm looking for a better venue for us devs to interact with you.

The unfortunate reality is that this system simply is not scalable nor effective in the long run. That's just the reality. I know people are adverse to change, but this will be the way it's going to go most likely.

Again, here we are, this discussion has been hijacked from VU's to forum venues. There's at least 3 different discussions happening. VU's in general, specific character VU's, forum discussions, etc. That is simply not viable. In the new venue this would most likely stay on track, doing the service to the people who are here to talk about the subject at hand.
I think the misconception is that a discussion changing from topic to topic is inherently bad. Isn't that how actual conversations go? You start talking about one thing and then move to something else later. I don't believe that the topic is being "hijacked" so much as it is changing organically. Moreover there is no guarantee that a topic won't change given the reddit format. You are relying on the community to upvote only those posts which are relevant but there is really no barrier to them picking something off topic to upvote.
This isn't a personal attack on you at all, I just think a large problems with the reddit format is that it doesn't directly solve many of the stated problems with the current system.


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Thryale

Senior Member

02-03-2014

IronStylus! I just thought of a great idea for the forum/reddit problem. Going off of your suggestion for trying to merge both fuctionality, why not try something like this:

Normal forum thread. Topic and posts work like normal, but on the side, there is a "news bar/highlight bar" that displays the top rated posts in the entire thread. That way, you can have normal discussions, and the particularly healthy/insightful posts will be brought to the forefront without sacrificing the way normal discussion flow in the forums.

What are your thoughts on that?


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exec3

Senior Member

02-03-2014

This is all offtopic (and Ironstylus you responding so much to the forum debate hasn't helped this at all) but here's my quick 2c.

This is not an issue of change. I see the current forums as a 1 on 1 (or small group) having a prolonged back and forth discussion whereas Reddit is like a QA panel at a convention. Most people here aren't looking for a QA panel, they want a meaningful discussion with developers and this desire simply can't be met with Reddit because it's not designed that way. People want to feel like they're making a contribution to the game, that they can have a good conversation with a developer, change their minds on something, evolve ideas together (ala Xelnath's Xerath thread, that would not be possible on Reddit), they're not going to get that in a QA session and that's why so many are against Reddit.

The current system of course has many issues but at least it was designed for the types of discussions people here want to have.