Hell Riot. I love Diana. Lets talk about her please.

First Riot Post
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rabbalian

Junior Member

02-03-2014

Diana is by far my favorite champion, and I guess I don't see why people think she has an identity crisis?

As a company that, basically, mass produces dozens of champions to play as, you want each champion to feel unique, specific, and different from other champions. Diana is precisely that because you said, "Hey, what if we had an assassin who traded escapes for tankiness?" Isn't that more or less what the elevator pitch was for her? If she sits in between this place of assassin and fight then...good, right? That's her one-of-a-kind place in the roster.

You value uniqueness, but you'll shoehorn her into one end of her spectrum?

As a company, you're never going to want to put out a champion that feels too similar to one you've released previously. No matter how you change her here, in regards to assassin or fighter, she'll only be able to change so much. You'll make her fit better into one of those roles, then one day in the future you'll think, "Hey, let's make a champion who's a tanky assassin! Well, we can't because Diana fits that role and we should only put out champions who play differently from each other."

As you should! Because you guys did great on Diana and knocked it out of the park! You had one shot to fill that niche with a champion and she's a fantastic one at that!

3v3s are my favorite mode to play, too, and she's great there. It's awesome to charge in, whether on TT or SR, pop a W and deal sustained damage on top of it all because you built Nashor's Tooth and a Lichbane.

She's in a good spot now. She's not weak, she's a strong pick that can fill multiple roles in 5v5. She has a kit that'll never be outdated. "Identity crisis" sounds like something that's problematic, but she's still a strong champion so I guess I fail to see the problem.

I love Diana and I want to see the best for her, but I'm hesitant about any core changes like this.

You should also put the helmet back on her Dark Valkyrie skin


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Maximum Jarvan

Senior Member

02-03-2014

Vesh I am a little upset that your first reply back to this thread was kn the VO but at least you came back. Can we please just revert some of the past nerfs and see if that helps her performance rate some without pushing her over the top first? I really don't think we need to a complete kit overhaul or turn her into a fighter. Someone pointed out that right now she has her own niche which is cool and I think we should appreciate that instead of taking it out of the game. She just needs a bit more damage and she will be fine. I am not asking for her shield ratio to go up or anything like that.

I know you think burst is toxic but remember that there is a class that can right click you and just win after two to three seconds which feels way more toxic when your mistake is I could be right clicked.


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ArmySquirrel

Senior Member

02-03-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vesh View Post
I think one of her core quirks as a champion is that her sense of humor is a little... off. Personally I love the fact that she lust does the one "hah." It feels appropriate for a champion that doesn't have much to laugh about. (this is personal opinion)
Your opinion is shared. Diana seems like she's doing things because she feels they need to be done, not because she enjoys it. Her laugh may be dull, but it's just the way she is, she has nothing to make a wicked laugh about as she doesn't actually enjoy slaughtering heretics, she just feels it's necessary and that they leave her no choice.

About the nearest you'll get is her awkwardly laughing at her own bad jokes. She seems to have this quirky sense of humor where she sets up a joke and then discards it with a punchline where reality sets in.


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longhair fox

Junior Member

02-03-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbalian View Post
Diana is by far my favorite champion, and I guess I don't see why people think she has an identity crisis?

As a company that, basically, mass produces dozens of champions to play as, you want each champion to feel unique, specific, and different from other champions. Diana is precisely that because you said, "Hey, what if we had an assassin who traded escapes for tankiness?" Isn't that more or less what the elevator pitch was for her? If she sits in between this place of assassin and fight then...good, right? That's her one-of-a-kind place in the roster.

You value uniqueness, but you'll shoehorn her into one end of her spectrum?

As a company, you're never going to want to put out a champion that feels too similar to one you've released previously. No matter how you change her here, in regards to assassin or fighter, she'll only be able to change so much. You'll make her fit better into one of those roles, then one day in the future you'll think, "Hey, let's make a champion who's a tanky assassin! Well, we can't because Diana fits that role and we should only put out champions who play differently from each other."

As you should! Because you guys did great on Diana and knocked it out of the park! You had one shot to fill that niche with a champion and she's a fantastic one at that!

3v3s are my favorite mode to play, too, and she's great there. It's awesome to charge in, whether on TT or SR, pop a W and deal sustained damage on top of it all because you built Nashor's Tooth and a Lichbane.

She's in a good spot now. She's not weak, she's a strong pick that can fill multiple roles in 5v5. She has a kit that'll never be outdated. "Identity crisis" sounds like something that's problematic, but she's still a strong champion so I guess I fail to see the problem.

I love Diana and I want to see the best for her, but I'm hesitant about any core changes like this.

You should also put the helmet back on her Dark Valkyrie skin
WARNING: THIS IS PURELY AN EXPLANATION OF THE PROBLEM
The identity crisis part is because she can be build as either an assassin or a bruiser. While this is not bad in it self it is very hard to balance. Most of us here want a buff but where to buff her? If you buff ap ratios the bruiser diana is unchanged as she never builds much more than some 100-200 ap. While if you adjust base numbers the assassin side won't feel it as much as her bruiser side.
While it most likely is possible to balance out the numbers it takes a lot of time which players usually whine about.
The "toxic" part of her kit is all in her ultimate. Riot doesn't want assassins to be do or die becuase it basically means when she dives she get the kill and is then killed if balanced. This means we could as well replace her q with: If this hits a carry both the carry and diana dies. The other part about her "toxic" ultimate is the instant reset. In teamfights you want to only use it when you get a reset while in lane you can easily use it without the reset if it kills your target or even for trades due to it's low cooldown. So if she can 100-0 you without two r's she just has to click on you in lane and kill you creating no counterplay in lane. However if she needs both r's she will always die in teamfights without a way out.

Hope this helps
Also before the downvotes: remember that this is just an explantion of what riot wants from diana as far as i understand.


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Diana x Me

Senior Member

02-03-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by longhair fox View Post
WARNING: THIS IS PURELY AN EXPLANATION OF THE PROBLEM
The identity crisis part is because she can be build as either an assassin or a bruiser. While this is not bad in it self it is very hard to balance. Most of us here want a buff but where to buff her? If you buff ap ratios the bruiser diana is unchanged as she never builds much more than some 100-200 ap. While if you adjust base numbers the assassin side won't feel it as much as her bruiser side.
While it most likely is possible to balance out the numbers it takes a lot of time which players usually whine about.
The "toxic" part of her kit is all in her ultimate. Riot doesn't want assassins to be do or die becuase it basically means when she dives she get the kill and is then killed if balanced. This means we could as well replace her q with: If this hits a carry both the carry and diana dies. The other part about her "toxic" ultimate is the instant reset. In teamfights you want to only use it when you get a reset while in lane you can easily use it without the reset if it kills your target or even for trades due to it's low cooldown. So if she can 100-0 you without two r's she just has to click on you in lane and kill you creating no counterplay in lane. However if she needs both r's she will always die in teamfights without a way out.

Hope this helps
Also before the downvotes: remember that this is just an explantion of what riot wants from diana as far as i understand.
If her reset was the problem then katarina and yi would be the most *****ed about. Ill say it once ill say it again if qrr is an issue then just reduce the damage it does when the target does not have moonlight on it, lets say 25-40% less damage. That way you still have the reset you still have the qrr you can get a buff to the ratio. I really never thought her kit was toxic or op people just ***** to much and she got put into eve teir because of it.


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Epichuntarz

Senior Member

02-03-2014

Bruiser Diana will never work for 1 reason-she has no health sustain. It's the reason AP bruisers don't really work, period.


The normal AD bruisers tend to build some lifesteal, which is vastly more effective than spell vamp, and it allows them to stick around fights longer.

Unless spell vamp becomes REALLY good, we're not going to see AP bruisers be successful.


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longhair fox

Junior Member

02-03-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxReeboBand View Post
If her reset was the problem then katarina and yi would be the most *****ed about. Ill say it once ill say it again if qrr is an issue then just reduce the damage it does when the target does not have moonlight on it, lets say 25-40% less damage. That way you still have the reset you still have the qrr you can get a buff to the ratio. I really never thought her kit was toxic or op people just ***** to much and she got put into eve teir because of it.
Both the cases need a death and are more squishy than diana due to her shield.
Having less damage with no moonlight is indeed a way to make her kit less toxic it stil doesn't solve her do or die playstyle however. This can be fixed by letting her ult to her allies so her kit doesn't need to be altered much.
Just remember that there is a reason she right now is in the place she is. Now don't misunderstand i want her buffed too but i don't wanna see her get op just to get olaf'ed.


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Diana x Me

Senior Member

02-03-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by longhair fox View Post
Both the cases need a death and are more squishy than diana due to her shield.
Having less damage with no moonlight is indeed a way to make her kit less toxic it stil doesn't solve her do or die playstyle however. This can be fixed by letting her ult to her allies so her kit doesn't need to be altered much.
Just remember that there is a reason she right now is in the place she is. Now don't misunderstand i want her buffed too but i don't wanna see her get op just to get olaf'ed.
well yeah this is true but also another guy mentioned before hand that riot just did full out nerfs to her kit not drop little by little on certain skills they thought were most toxic. Thet just pulled out the nerf bat and beat her with extreme prejudice both times. I agree she was a little to powerful on release but the second set of nerfs were unjustified and I feel were done because people *****ed to much and riot was afraid of backlash.


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Maximum Jarvan

Senior Member

02-03-2014

Literally they could revert the last set of nerfs and lower her shield scaling by .1 overall if they really feel it is that "toxic" and she would still be fine and see an increase in win rate.


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Diana x Me

Senior Member

02-03-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximum Jarvan View Post
Literally they could revert the last set of nerfs and lower her shield scaling by .1 overall if they really feel it is that toxic and she would still be fine and see an increase in win rate.
Or possibly make pale cascades base lower and increase the ratio to .6 or .55 and remove the doubling up of the shield if all are detonated but take it back to its original purpose and increase the duration. When I think of a full moon I also automatically think of blood (I.e. werewolves, vampires and for some reason their is an increase in violence and murder) and health is relative to it so for W let its defensive purpose scale by health and ap but have a larger scaling ratio on health and lower ratio on ap encouraging people who want to build bruiser to get health items over ap which would still make the shield useful for bruisers. But at the same time increase the ap ratio to .6 on the offensive aspect (the detonation) to make it more useful for an assassin. This would still keep the bruiser aspects burst in check because they are forced to build more health to get the survival they need to stay in the fight but keeps thwre burst down because they cant build as much ap without being blown up. . Her atk spd also needs a buff I suggest another use for her shields health scaling. Bonus health should also give bonus atk speed and to prevent it fron being abused by people who want to build assassin you have to reach a certain amount of bonus health to start the scaling of bonus atk spd.

As for assassin build path I suggest the ability to be allowed to escape by allowing yourself to target an ally but its cooldown is not reset it gives incentive to not want use your R again to burst a target which gets rid of your escape. Like I said before to prevent qrr abuse a target without moonlight thats ulted to takes a percentage of less damage. I think that the ratio for crescent strike (Q) should be raised by .1 . Lunar rush (R) should have its ratio raised by .1 and its range increased to 800.

Vesh,what are your thoughts/feelings on these suggested changes?

Just a thought, have you guys ever thought about giving Diana an Astronaut skin? In a way it could be in honor of the first few women to go to space such as Sally Ride and Valentina Tereshkova.