Ironstylus: "We're on track to release a VU every month or so."

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Hellioning

Senior Member

02-03-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
*Snip*
I dunno, I'd like just seeing you guys work. I mean, sure, it'd probably be a bunch of 'have exciting new idea for Sion rework!'
followed by 'new idea had issues, we scrapped it and are starting over' but at least we know that work is getting done.

As far as we know, Riot's just having pool parties 24/7 while trained monkies keep the servers running.


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Lord Zod IV

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Senior Member

02-03-2014

Could you comment on any plans for a Vlad touch up? I feel like he's model and animation are fine, but I like to see him get some texture love.


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IronStylus

Sr. Concept Artist

02-03-2014
40 of 78 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by exec3 View Post
Have you ever thought of doing a detailed play by play as it happens for some of the bigger ones like Sion so we can get a nice detailed and ongoing behind the scenes look of the process?
I personally wouldn't have a problem with it, but that's definitely not my decision. The logistics would probably be difficult. It would be the call of our producer's.


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TT31

Senior Member

02-03-2014

I think Miss Fortune needs a VU, Dat hair is horrendous.


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Impetual

Senior Member

02-03-2014

Thanks a lot for responding to questions in this thread IronStylus, I'm a big fan. One of the reasons that I love this game is that the developers are willing to talk to the player-base as much as they do.

I've kinda been wondering why development on new content has slowed so much. I understand that as the champion pool grows larger that less man-power will be used on creating new champions, and more will be used on bringing the old ones up to date, but it seems that we're not getting either very quickly.

I do understand that the bar for quality in the game has gone up substantially, and that new champions take longer to create now, (and that old champs require re-works), but League of Legends feels like it's lost most of the momentum that made it one of the most (if not THE most) popular MOBA games today.

I understand that you don't want to speak for other people/departments that you may not know about, but could you PLEASE ask around the office for people to either respond/make a thread on why the amount of content per month has dwindled so much?

Most people assume that Riot has increased its workforce, as it has succeeded globally as one of the most popular games in the world over the last few years, yet it seems odd that production would slow down very much as a result, even if the bar for quality is raised higher. That goes double for the balance team (who I assume aren't involved in champion development). Yet balance patches seem much rarer than they used to be.

Once again, I love this game, and will continue to love it. That's thanks to all of you Rioters making it awesome. It just seems really weird that production of new content has slowed down as much as it has, and I would be curious to hear a bit more about why, as I'm sure most players are.


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Tortferngatr

Senior Member

02-03-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
It's a big thread, unfortunately I haven't gotten to everything.

It'd be extremely difficult to give certain types of regular updates. It's just not feasible to do a day-to-day, nor is it a great idea to show off concepts or progress at different stages because it could all be thrown out, resulting in "The Omen Effect" (We throw something out for good reason, and.. "RITO, Y?!") I can guarantee, with each concept let's say, there will be an equal amount of people that like it or hate it. That's not going to make the decision any easier. You'd be astounded how intense discussions can get even internally. Breaking that open would be a little overwhelming.

What might be possible, is things like team members explaining where a certain character is at in it's pre-production, production, or post-production phase, but only if things are abundantly clear that at any point we could shift directions or that a release could be delayed or killed. Sometimes even the completion of content doesn't guarantee it's release.

Some of that is possible, some of it isn't. Also, I'll always throw in the caveat that we're only talking about an NA focused approach here. We have a property that's worldwide in it's reach. I'm not a data guy, but I would venture to guess that we should take a global approach to gathering feedback. That's one of the big reasons I'm not for polls and early concept reveals. Right now, due to the structure of our community, we can only effectively have the casual discussion (like this one) in a North American-centric venue. I don't think that's fair to the other territories, honestly.
Question: Does this mean that if I learn Korean and/or Chinese and/or Turkish and/or Portuguese (along with any relevant cultural things for each--basically just enough for make it feel authentically casual, even from a Google Translate base) I'll have a better chance at getting into Riot if I apply?

One thing I really like doing (that seems like something necessary enough) is trying to piece together ideas from feedback--being able to gather that over a wider range of regions (and perhaps translate some of what I learn) sounds like it would be a needed skill (albeit not in the area I'm actually interested in--seeing as what I'm most interested in improving tends to be an area that is, as of now, NA/EU only most of the time)


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IronStylus

Sr. Concept Artist

02-03-2014
41 of 78 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Explosion View Post
"Hey we're considering making Sion better, could you tell us what you think of this preliminary stuff?"-- expectation that you'll then tell us what happened in response to our feedback. Probably not that you'll do absolutely everything you mentioned in the thread.
I don't think that's going to happen, not right now, especially not with art. This is simply not the venue for it. Logistically it's also problematic, and if it's NA only interaction that's a big disservice to the rest of the world. It seems unfair to me to plug it into an English only system when we're a company that needs to provide content for the entire world. Also, in the current forum system this wouldn't be scalable. If something like it were to happen, it would have to happen in the new community beta format. Page after page feedback in threads like this would be impossible to parse. At the very least, in the new format, the emotional sentiments can coalesce around a comment which can be upvoted and what comments don't contribute to the conversation can sink.

Skins, Relaunch, Champions, all very different animals, also. It's one thing to be making fan art of skins. Endless possibilities and there's no IP or other such implications. Good ideas are good ideas no matter where they're cultivated from. Champion and Relaunch however, high subjective. They're much bigger beasts when it comes to ground-up creation from the character perspective.


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Hellioning

Senior Member

02-03-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
Also, in the current forum system this wouldn't be scalable. If something like it were to happen, it would have to happen in the new community beta format. Page after page feedback in threads like this would be impossible to parse. At the very least, in the new format, the emotional sentiments can coalesce around a comment which can be upvoted and what comments don't contribute to the conversation can sink.
You guys keep saying it, and I continue to be unable to believe it. Currently, in GD, there are trends in particular threads that are fairly obvious; if the OP is getting upvoted, things that agree with the OP get upvoted and things that disagree get downvoted. Likewise, the reverse is true. There is no reason to believe that this would change with the new system. Ergo, it would lead to a bunch of people agreeing with each other and upvoting things they agree with, and well reasoned arguments that disagree with the trend of that particular topic get downvoted. This is going to happen even worse in the community beta, considering that it will lead to a feedback loop. No one goes very far down in reddit threads, so the things that get seen are the things that agree with the trend the thread is going through, which means those things get posted more often which..etc.

I'm also wondering why you can't just have a community member of every place you release your game in release a thread asking for feedback on, say, the sion rework. NA will probably receive the most attention, but is there anything in particular that is preventing someone from making a thread in LoL's KR forums?


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Super Explosion

Senior Member

02-03-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
At the same time, early exposure where we're at the most malleable phase as, again, some people will love a concept, others will hate it.
Of course. This is going to happen pretty much for everything.

The goal of open initial feedback tends to be to expose more insights, which you in the weight of the data may determine possibilities and effects from.

In the balance of likes and dislikes, you find reasons for them, and from those reasons develop improvements.

So there comes the realization that when handled well (determining the reasons), more feedback is almost always better-- if you only have the current capacity to derive it from one community, that may still be better than zero.

You get the question of "is it fair to China that our company is in the USA?"

And the answer tends to be: "As long as we use all the tools at our disposal to consider what is best."

I perhaps wasn't too clear about which thread I meant earlier-- it was the one Meddler and Xelnath posted in that was perhaps more on the topic of design updates. (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com...57789#44857789)

In essence: The community may both feel better, and you may get more data to work with, when discussing accurately the progress on these reworks with the design reasoning on a more regular basis.

There's less fear of "what's going on with my favorite champion", and more tools for designers to bounce concepts from and confirm their veracity with.


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Tortferngatr

Senior Member

02-03-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellioning View Post
You guys keep saying it, and I continue to be unable to believe it. Currently, in GD, there are trends in particular threads that are fairly obvious; if the OP is getting upvoted, things that agree with the OP get upvoted and things that disagree get downvoted. Likewise, the reverse is true. There is no reason to believe that this would change with the new system. Ergo, it would lead to a bunch of people agreeing with each other and upvoting things they agree with, and well reasoned arguments that disagree with the trend of that particular topic get downvoted. This is going to happen even worse in the community beta, considering that it will lead to a feedback loop. No one goes very far down in reddit threads, so the things that get seen are the things that agree with the trend the thread is going through, which means those things get posted more often which..etc.

I'm also wondering why you can't just have a community member of every place you release your game in release a thread asking for feedback on, say, the sion rework. NA will probably receive the most attention, but is there anything in particular that is preventing someone from making a thread in LoL's KR forums?
While I largely disagree with the reasoning (on Reddit I've noticed that one side is simply less upvoted and both just sit in their own camps--plus I'll very often go down some distance and I suspect Rioters would as well), I have to say the questions asked are ones that seem worth answering.

That being said, I think it's a matter of "have to sift through a bunch of posts basically saying exactly the same thing and quite possibly missing some important info about stuff in the middle of the thread where the posts start to all look the same."

Multi-threaded upvote-sorted systems offer a guaranteed "hey some people like this and here are all the details of why" and minimize the amount of parsing needed to understand feedback. It also keeps all feedback about a subpost relevant to that post.