@Riot Updates on Shaco rework

First Riot Post
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Baxtasan

Senior Member

02-01-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
The path for Rengar was much clearer than Shaco. For Rengar, we knew we wanted to clean up his core abilities a little bit, experiment with bonetooth, remove some exploits, then experiment with some ideas for his ultimate.

Shaco requires more tinkering. In the worst of cases, Shaco is frustrating to play against, stifling and frustating for everyone in lane, is an uncatchable split pusher and can lay traps that murder you without a chance to counter Shaco.

Rengar's burst vs. Shaco's inherently frustrating kit need dramatically different solutions.
Hold on, Trynd is able to splitpush a lot harder than Shaco and does more damage. Thats not even in the worst of cases, thats pretty much most cases with Trynd. I love Shaco and hate splitpushing in any shape or form but saying that his splitpushing is frustrating isn't really a good argument.

His traps do not do any damage as AD. AP Shaco isn't viable because his traps explode as soon as anything happens near them. They need timers and life equivalent to Zyra plants.

That's pretty much all I thin Shaco needs.


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Xelnath

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Systems Designer

02-01-2014
10 of 12 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fatalii View Post
Only problem i see wrong with shaco is his squishyness and q nerf range.

What exactly is wrong with him??
He's best played as a split-pusher who is nigh uncatchable, an assassin who can't team fight, an ambusher who can't be countered, if you are chasing him into a next(p.s. does anyone know if red trinket disables his boxes or not?)

and once he starts to get ahead of you, he has a permanent slow in addition to a backstab + crit multiplier - aka, once he wins, if he catches you away from a tower, you don't have a good way to escape.


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Bad Footwear

Member

02-01-2014

Honestly as someone who mained Shaco for a long time, I was pretty content with where he was mid season 3, despite all the people who complained every time I locked him in. Season 4 has just annihilated him though. I'd be content with small buffs that made his early game meaningful again.


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DreamLeviathan

Senior Member

02-01-2014

i think the problem is that gd thinks a rework is just supposed to be buffs until something is good


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Super Explosion

Senior Member

02-01-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
"Adaptation is work that can be frustrating and lead to me feeling like I've lost skill I used to have."
Although speaking of, I would like to see professional players having to adapt to different metagames.

It can really bring out individual skill, and skill with particular champions, rather than class/role/lane mechanics.

Like in Dota: Merlini can go Zeus mid, offlane, jungle. He can agressively gank, or defensively protect a safezone. He can basically bring that character into multiple team-compositions and perhaps 'metagames', providing a show-off display of skill.


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Xelnath

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Systems Designer

02-01-2014
11 of 12 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellioning View Post
I meant something along the lines of 'why do you feel the need to do all of these big changes at the same time instead of spreading them out, especially considering you yourself admits it causes smaller changes to fall by the wayside?'

I'm not saying that, say, support gold income wasn't an issue that needed fixing. I'm wondering why you decided you had to do that AND rune changes AND jungle changes AND mastery changes at the same time, not to mention that most of those aren't done yet. Wouldn't it make more sense to spread these out? I understand that your patch cadence has decreased dramatically, so you want to put a bunch of extra effort into every patch so that the game doesn't feel terrible for the month each new patch takes, but it seems incredibly disruptive.

Then, of course, there's the 'we tend to lose things when we have to do these big updates' issue, but that's secondary at this point.

(As a sidenote, you are good at making me feel terrible whenever I complaing about Riot, Xelnath.)
The reason we did those things together was to try to bundle most of the "okay, how I have to think about the entire game has completely changed for everyone" factor into a single patch.

It's easier to accept, "okay, I've got some big changes to learn, but so does everyone else". For example, just doing the jungle item rework would be all of the junglers are in flux, but everyone else feels kind of the same.

Bundling changes together means players can kind of go through a mutually shared experience of re-experiencing summoner's rift.

Re: Losing things - part of improving a game is culling features too. The opposite is feature bloat, champion sprawl and creeping complexity.


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Xelnath

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Systems Designer

02-01-2014
12 of 12 Riot Posts

Alright, thanks for the distraction. Back to work.

Zug zug. er... what do minions say when they leave base anyways?


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Bad Footwear

Member

02-01-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
Alright, thanks for the distraction. Back to work.

Zug zug. er... what do minions say when they leave base anyways?
Lok'tar!


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Super Explosion

Senior Member

02-01-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
and creeping complexity
Speaking of, this whole trinkets and melee/ranged split items things might be a problem.

Often times you can get more 'baroque' structures when there's a core problematic blister that remains unaddressed.

I've tended to state that it's the power of the marksman class, and perhaps ranged power in general, currently.


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Hellioning

Senior Member

02-01-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
The reason we did those things together was to try to bundle most of the "okay, how I have to think about the entire game has completely changed for everyone" factor into a single patch.

It's easier to accept, "okay, I've got some big changes to learn, but so does everyone else". For example, just doing the jungle item rework would be all of the junglers are in flux, but everyone else feels kind of the same.

Bundling changes together means players can kind of go through a mutually shared experience of re-experiencing summoner's rift.

Re: Losing things - part of improving a game is culling features too. The opposite is feature bloat, champion sprawl and creeping complexity.
I guess that makes sense, in regards to season changes. But I'm not sure that your argument on culling features is a good one. For one, I don't think there's a person in the world who has ever said 'League has too much stuff to do' and meant it; you have one game mode that gets any attention, plus a rotating list of temporary modes, and no replays. Champion sprawl is a bad thing, I agree, since a lot of your champions feel very same-y due to the release cadence you guys had to keep up before you guys slowed that down. I'm not sure what you mean by 'creeping complexity', though. Do you mean 'champions have too much complexity' or what? Could you elaborate, please?