@Riot Updates on Shaco rework

First Riot Post
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Rastamon Ganja

Senior Member

02-01-2014

Any news on the Nunu VU? someone said his model was done quite awhile ago.


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Shyvana420

Senior Member

02-01-2014

Shaco is a bronze smasher

Id love to see his old kit back. Stomp bronzies even harder

Hes just to squishy

Give his old q range back more base hp and hp/armor per lvl

Reduce his slow by a bit or cd


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Xelnath

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Systems Designer

02-01-2014
6 of 12 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Player Alt F4 View Post
This sounds like a piss poor way of saying there will not be a re-work for Shaco. Thanks for not getting our hopes up with hype about reworking him. One would think that the Shaco re-work has been "canned" in order to re-work their servers, but that doesn't look like it is happening either.
I'll edit my original post.

Basically, what I am saying is that Shaco's rework is not on the near horizon, despite being discussed in the past. We had a couple awesome leaps forward, then sat down, looked at the champion list as a whole (see Meddler's post) and prioritized to suit the upcoming year and champions best.

I really want to reinforce this - meaningful reworks take a long time to do right unless they are minor updates or quality of life improvements.

Shaco is a cool character. We want to do cool characters right. Shaco has some very harsh edges in his playing against experience. Thus we need to do more work than just a few minor tweaks.


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THTSUBWAYGUY

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Senior Member

02-01-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
Understandable.

In this case, the guy who was working on the Shaco rework switched his time and energy to help us deliver preseason. I've learned in the past year, that people get very "fast" expectations when we talk about things - this is just a side-effect of not framing "hey, I'm looking at this" properly.

To be fair - I expected to ship Xerath in August when I started working on him in May... but as we all see now, it ended up being another 6 months before other important things got done and we were able to schedule team time to finish Xerath.
Not to derail the thread, but is this along the lines of what happened with Viktor when Solcrushed said he was going to take a look at him? I know he was a big part in the preseason 4 stuff.


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Konpaku Youmu

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Senior Member

02-01-2014

Are you guys consulting any high-elo Shaco players, like Bottomset?


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Super Explosion

Senior Member

02-01-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
In this case, the guy who was working on the Shaco rework switched his time and energy to help us deliver preseason. I've learned in the past year, that people get very "fast" expectations when we talk about things - this is just a side-effect of not framing "hey, I'm looking at this" properly.
I'd say that's a reasonable step.

A lot of this may be the clarity with which you convey the progression to the community.

Saying "we're looking to rework Shaco" is going to get mixed fear and expectation. "What's going on? When's it happening?"

Saying "hi community, we want Shaco to be better, I'm working on it, and in this thread I'd like to get your opinion on him and some of these potentials we've come up with for him" might mitigate that 'fear and expectation' response.

A large amount of public relations is perhaps conveying probability well, in addition to ensuring accuracy.

So for something like Sion, if you made a thread with "a possibility for Sion's E is [this]" followed by "here's why: [examples]" and "what do you think about it?"-- it's perhaps doubful that the community at large will expect you to do exactly that.

But they will see that you're working on it, feel closer to the game, and hopefully in return you'll get some good insights from active players.


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Gaggle of Koalas

Senior Member

02-01-2014

Hey Meddler, Xelnath, I wanted to thank you guys for being as open as possible with us. I know that talking to GD can be kind of intimidating, and really aggravating, but your work and willingness to talk about it is really appreciated.


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Alacor

Senior Member

02-01-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
Basically, what I am saying is that Shaco's rework is not on the near horizon, despite being discussed in the past. We had a couple awesome leaps forward, then sat down, looked at the champion list as a whole (see Meddler's post) and prioritized to suit the upcoming year and champions best.
Shaco is tossed aside time and time again. Why? At least get him some bug fixes and QoL fixes.

Quote:
Shaco is a cool character. We want to do cool characters right. Shaco has some very harsh edges in his playing against experience. Thus we need to do more work than just a few minor tweaks.
That work has to start sometime, though. I get that you guys have a lot of work to do, but reworking champions that were released as recently as Rengar OVER a champion like Shaco that was released in 2009 who has had issues since his launch?

=\


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Xelnath

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Systems Designer

02-01-2014
7 of 12 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by THTSUBWAYGUY View Post
Not to derail the thread, but is this along the lines of what happened with Viktor when Solcrushed said he was going to take a look at him? I know he was a big part in the preseason 4 stuff.
We realized it was a much bigger ball of yarn than it appeared to be. We had some specific ideas regarding his unique item, how to improve the feeling of his laser, etc. And it required a lot more work than we could support while getting trinkets, vision updates, new jungle, etc.

Since then, Solcrushed has still been looking at the jungle (see the new spirit stones and some work on the Wriggles line).

Post preseason, we took the time to sort out the reworks but I don't recall where he ended up.


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Noraver

Senior Member

02-01-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
I'll edit my original post.

Basically, what I am saying is that Shaco's rework is not on the near horizon, despite being discussed in the past.
So I'm curious then.
What happened to the Jayce and Yorick reworks?
Jayce in particular was discussed early last year when he was nerfed. He was toxic to gameplay, and personally I was hoping for a reason to stay in melee form with him.
Xypherous had been talking about some things he planned on doing with him, but he's only posted on the forums a few times in the past year now.

Same goes for Yorick. I remember you had a bunch of cool ideas for his new kit.
What happened to those?
I understand Xerath and Rengar are important, but when a champion's nerfed into (almost) unplayability like Jayce, I don't see why you guys had to go quiet on it.

Even coming out to us and TELLING US that you've scrapped the reworks would be better.
At least that way we don't wait eight months and then everyone rages at you for promising to do it.
That's when you come out and say "We scrapped it", and everyone gets even more annoyed.