Hell Riot. I love Diana. Lets talk about her please.

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Maximum Jarvan

Senior Member

01-31-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by irott View Post
One key to Diana and her kit is Leona. The thematic similarities are very important to the core of what Diana is and was.

Crescent strike is a modified Zenith blade, and both her shield and moonfall are similar to Eclipse. The passives and ults are almost alike but unique to each character. Diana could have become another Leona but she took her own path.

Leona is an All-in champion. What is Diana's version?
Leona is all in but with bringing control and peace AKA CC. Diana is all in bringing death because she is of the join or die mentality. Standing around with DPS seems more like potential negotiations than join me or die. Leona subjugates people to the sun with her stuns and by immoblizing. Diana just kills you for disagreeing.

Make sense?

It is not that I think Diana is a terrible person and crazy but I don't think she is at the point where she is gonna negotiate either. DPS is kind of like I am eventually going to kill you and Diana is just going to do it.(AKA burst damage) Know what I mean?


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DarkestDisciple

Senior Member

01-31-2014

I love the feel of Diana, and I do agree with the idea that she FEELS like she should be a very sticky AP Bruiser. The problem is that the ratios on her Q>R>R damage are strong enough to make her assassin-y. Not many would like Sunfire Diana: but I would like a Diana where building some HP AP items lets her stay in fights and deal solid AoE damage.

Some thoughts on tuning her to be a bruiser:

Reduce Ratios slightly across the board
R CD reduced
Using R on a champ with Q debuff grants bonus armor/MR
Champions hit by abilities reduce Rs CD by a flat amount (imagine hitting 1 champ with all 3 is close to a full reset)
Shield renew now scales on bonus HP
Buff base AS so building AS feels more rewarding
Slight Buff to base Stats and stat growth


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Tortferngatr

Senior Member

01-31-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vesh View Post
Diana doesn't hit and run. She chases down a heretic, slays them with her blade and then goes to the next one. She doesn't jump onto one of them and run away/do nothing for 10 seconds.

Thematically I think a more fighter style fits her, but at the core I think the gameplay is what should drive any adjustments.

It should still feel great to Q->R->E->W into a fight. I just want to make sure the actions that follow that feel good to Diana and don't feel like utter bull**** to her opponents. Fighter doesn't mean she only autoattacks. It means she has tools to help her deal sustained damage but she can still have bursty moments to finish someone off or even to engage with she at the end of the day shes also a champion that scales with AP.
Hmm.

What if Q also inflicted a debuff [Moonburn] that dealt part of its damage and perhaps current R's damage over time, and R dealt the remaining damage of the DoT to the enemy instantly? (R would still potentially remove the vision component from other enemies but not the DoT from them--however, casting R on them would only trigger Moonburn's remaining damage, not refresh Moonlight.)

i.e something like Q deals 50/80/110/140/170+0.4 AP base, R deals 60/100/140+0.4 AP, Moonburn deals her passive's base damage+0.3 AP over 3 seconds.

What if R dealt less damage, but did true damage to enemies debuffed by Moonlight? (hey, it makes thematic sense :P)

i.e. something like 50/125/200+0.4 AP damage on R--with 500 AP on a Moonlight-debuffed enemy that's 400 true damage [good for a heavy AP Diana--not as good without Moonlight]; with 250 that's 300 true damage. [light burst for a tankier Diana]

Also, why not make W scale with total health AND her AP? That way she has the option of going aggressively or defensively.


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Maximum Jarvan

Senior Member

01-31-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkestDisciple View Post
I love the feel of Diana, and I do agree with the idea that she FEELS like she should be a very sticky AP Bruiser. The problem is that the ratios on her Q>R>R damage are strong enough to make her assassin-y. Not many would like Sunfire Diana: but I would like a Diana where building some HP AP items lets her stay in fights and deal solid AoE damage.

Some thoughts on tuning her to be a bruiser:

Reduce Ratios slightly across the board
R CD reduced
Using R on a champ with Q debuff grants bonus armor/MR
Champions hit by abilities reduce Rs CD by a flat amount (imagine hitting 1 champ with all 3 is close to a full reset)
Shield renew now scales on bonus HP
Buff base AS so building AS feels more rewarding
Slight Buff to base Stats and stat growth
Unless they buff Wits end it will still be worthless. Making a champion reliant on AP and auto attacks rely on AP only works with range and high ratios. It would be worthless on a true melee. Cuz you know they would need to unload absurd amounts of damage within like two seconds to not die right away. AP melee doesn't work without AOE damage up the butt and burst. There is a reason Gragas doesn't revolve around auto attacks for the majority of his damage. It is because it just doesn't work. I give up there is no getting the point across. No matter how good it sounds kn papaer she is going to must be OP and then right back here after two months if you try to make her some kind of dos bruiser. Then people will dry that her DPS is too high and Riot will just nerf her survivability again or her range or both. You keep asking for something that does not exist jn the game because it does not work.


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Maximum Jarvan

Senior Member

01-31-2014

Can we please stop trying to make her revolve around her passive only? We don't need to do that. Man this is nuts.


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Jenacide

Junior Member

01-31-2014

Please dont change diana, she is my main champ


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Diana x Me

Senior Member

01-31-2014

love the feel of Diana, and I do agree with the idea that she FEELS like she should be a very sticky AP Bruiser. The problem is that the ratios on her Q>R>R damage are strong enough to make her assassin-y. Not many would like Sunfire Diana: but I would like a Diana where building some HP AP items lets her stay in fights and deal solid AoE damage.

Some thoughts on tuning her to be a bruiser:

Reduce Ratios slightly across the board
R CD reduced
Using R on a champ with Q debuff grants bonus armor/MR
Champions hit by abilities reduce Rs CD by a flat amount (imagine hitting 1 champ with all 3 is close to a full reset)
Shield renew now scales on bonus HP
Buff base AS so building AS feels more rewarding
Slight Buff to base Stats and stat growth[/QUOTE]

I like the ideas.
Will q stil give the instant reset though? I feel like she will become kinda like kayle but a little tankier and of course melee. I feel like she is the type that wants to kill everyone at once that disagrees with her or die trying. Aoe of passive should be buffed. Moonfall should be able to draw in or push away which is what the moon does with ocean tides. E once to draw in E twice to push away. Of course it would need a longer cooldown because thats pretty strong but thematically it fits sooo well.


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Lord Graves III

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Senior Member

01-31-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vesh View Post
Diana doesn't hit and run. She chases down a heretic, slays them with her blade and then goes to the next one. She doesn't jump onto one of them and run away/do nothing for 10 seconds.

Thematically I think a more fighter style fits her, but at the core I think the gameplay is what should drive any adjustments.

It should still feel great to Q->R->E->W into a fight. I just want to make sure the actions that follow that feel good to Diana and don't feel like utter bull**** to her opponents. Fighter doesn't mean she only autoattacks. It means she has tools to help her deal sustained damage but she can still have bursty moments to finish someone off or even to engage with she at the end of the day shes also a champion that scales with AP.
I don't normally comment, but as a player who likes current Diana, can I throw something out there?

I like Diana's ability to tear through squishies, and I actually like that when confronted with a frontline bruiser type fighter like renek or nasus she bites it.

Diana's crowning moment was wiping out a room full of old men in robes.
I feel diana should have incredible sticking power against squishies, able to hunt down supports, mages, marksman, and other assassins effectively in exchange for toe to toe strength.

I feel its fair, thematic, and right that diana can't get into throw down drag out duels with Jax, Olaf, Irelia, Riven, or Trundle and the like.

Diana doesn't seem like a trained warrior, she gets by on passion and self-righteousness. She spends her off-hours tearing through lightly armored foes who likely do a great deal of time running from her.


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Maximum Jarvan

Senior Member

01-31-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Graves III View Post
I don't normally comment, but as a player who likes current Diana, can I throw something out there?

I like Diana's ability to tear through squishies, and I actually like that when confronted with a frontline bruiser type fighter like renek or nasus she bites it.

Diana's crowning moment was wiping out a room full of old men in robes.
I feel diana should have incredible sticking power against squishies, able to hunt down supports, mages, marksman, and other assassins effectively in exchange for toe to toe strength.

I feel its fair, thematic, and right that diana can't get into throw down drag out duels with Jax, Olaf, Irelia, Riven, or Trundle and the like.

Diana doesn't seem like a trained warrior, she gets by on passion and self-righteousness. She spends her off-hours tearing through lightly armored foes who likely do a great deal of time running from her.
So much this.


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Vesh

Game Designer

01-31-2014
16 of 19 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiora All Night View Post
@Vesh: A problem I foresee with "fighter Diana"...

There's no AP fighter items for her to build. Full tank means she shouldn't be doing much damage and that just doesn't sound like Diana. Glass cannon but with an offense-scaling shield like Riven's makes her just as hated as Riven whenever she is good.

I guess there's Nashor's / Hourglass then tank...but isn't the AD version of that build (rough Hydra + tank or Sorc Shoes / Guise tank for Elise) sort of seen as a problem right now?

I like the idea of an AP fighter but the current itemization doesn't make me feel like the game can properly support that style of champ right now.
I imagine a more fighter-type Diana to build Zhonyas and Nashor's tooth, jump into a fight, moonfall, de-aggro with zhonyas, and then come out of it and then use her second ult to jump on squishies and hit them with her passive + basic spells until they die all while staying alive with a more defensive-centric shield.

Diana should still want to be a back-line fighter (after all, if you give her the tools to jump to the carry she will do it regardless). She will still want to be on the softer targets. I don't think "tank killer" is what she wants to be or what she should be, I just think there are better ways to accomplice her goals than press QRR and one shot someone.

edit: this is only one possible way she could approach a fight if she had a coordianted team to land follow-up CC. I don't imagine this case is the majority of Diana's teamfights - I was just fantasizing about what could be a cool moment for her.