Hell Riot. I love Diana. Lets talk about her please.

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Neo Aragorn

Senior Member

01-31-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximum Jarvan View Post
Also can we please stop using how the receiving end "feels" to justify turning her into a fighter? In general can we explain why burst is so terrible? Some champs use burst some DPS. Some use a combination of the two. Jarvan with a frozen fist and hydra will burst your Carey to half health and then use DPS the further lower him

Jo matter what losing in solo queue feels like BS. If we look at it this way and say one person secides every game then 90% of your losses are caused by someone on your team being bad the enemy team having a really good player. The reason why Diana burst might "feel" like BS is because she is so rarely picked I wouldn't be surprised if some people didn't even know how she works. So they see her have one good game and then she is bad and toxic because people don't see enough bad Diana's. Now the same thing happens when a champion gets popular. A bunch of people play it but the guys who had been playing it are doing really well on the champion and the people who rely on counter sites and the like get mad and just think they are some FOTM bandwagon rider and that the champion is toxic or bad.

Stop trying to balance around the receiving end. Losing isn't fun and q lit of times you will find fring cases of every champion feeling like BS to get killed by. That doesn't make it so. You can always bait a Diana dive and kill her that way. She dies with being focused like any other champ. The only change I see needed is to Teemo and that is because of the major vision imbalance caused by the changes to wards and such. That isn't even a Teemo needs to be gutted but more over we need to look back at the vision changes and see if maybe something is not as smooth as we thought.
Thank you for typing out the stuff I've lost the patience to type. You took the words out of my mouth.


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Lans1ing

Senior Member

01-31-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximum Jarvan View Post
I honestly don't even the last time I wanted something nerfed besides Teemo shrooms. I hate Fizz but the damage nerfs he got were unwarranted especially considering it was to one of the less frustrating parts of his kit. I don't okay the guy but I understand him and as such don't feel he will ever need nerfs. No matter how annoying playful Trickster is.
No matter how much we tell them not to change her they won't listen. Instead of quick fix they are going to drag this champion into a hellhole. Believe me or not I knew from the start that these threads will not actually end up helping her because in the past same thing happened back in 2013 may nerfs. I cannot express my frustration enough on how ignorant every red has been to the real problem and how they want to change her into something the community wouldn't appreciate. Excuse me while I get a drink to relieve my frustration.


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irott

Senior Member

01-31-2014

One key to Diana and her kit is Leona. The thematic similarities are very important to the core of what Diana is and was.

Crescent strike is a modified Zenith blade, and both her shield and moonfall are similar to Eclipse. The passives and ults are almost alike but unique to each character. Diana could have become another Leona but she took her own path.

Leona is an All-in champion. What is Diana's version?


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Exponential

Junior Member

01-31-2014

I am seeing a lot of people worried that the goal is to make Diana into a Tank type fighter that builds Sunfire ect. I don't think that is anyone's desire. Burst 100-0 Assassin Diana is unhealthy and un-fun to play as and against.

Zed imo is the best designed assassin currently. He has the ability to dive in and 100-0 a Target assuming he isn't way behind. After diving in (if he gets the kill or not) he has tools to get away and wait for his CD's to be up. That is a great feeling and exactly what you want to do as an assassin. Playing against Zed is also fun. There are a lot of opportunities to outplay a Zed and avoid being killed by him. 1. Stay out of range of his ult. 2. Once he ults remove his ult dmg pop (QSS/ Barrier/ Hourglass ect). 3. Or just avoid his dmg after his ult through cc or escapes. That is why Zed is such a well done assasin.

Compare that to Diana. If Diana isn't behind. The only interaction point is dodging her Q. Once Q lands on a squishy character that person is dead. However because Diana has no escapes. Once she commits and gets the kill she is either blown-up, or just kinda stand around till her cd's are back up. It is not fun to play against (100-0 w/o any response). Or play as, get a guaranteed kill then its a ****-shoot, no skillful response/plays on your part.

I don't think anyone wants Diana to become a tank. Her theme/lore/play pattern are all set-up to be a relentlessly chasing/killing machine. What people are looking to do so she has more decisions to make, and their are more ways to in turn, outplay her, is to take damage off of her Q-R-R burst and add it to her passive and give her more tools to survive in a fight so while chasing/killing she can continue to fight rather than kill one person than cross her fingers, hoping she can live till her next rotation.


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Lans1ing

Senior Member

01-31-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exponential View Post
I am seeing a lot of people worried that the goal is to make Diana into a Tank type fighter that builds Sunfire ect. I don't think that is anyone's desire. Burst 100-0 Assassin Diana is unhealthy and un-fun to play as and against.

Zed imo is the best designed assassin currently. He has the ability to dive in and 100-0 a Target assuming he isn't way behind. After diving in (if he gets the kill or not) he has tools to get away and wait for his CD's to be up. That is a great feeling and exactly what you want to do as an assassin. Playing against Zed is also fun. There are a lot of opportunities to outplay a Zed and avoid being killed by him. 1. Stay out of range of his ult. 2. Once he ults remove his ult dmg pop (QSS/ Barrier/ Hourglass ect). 3. Or just avoid his dmg after his ult through cc or escapes. That is why Zed is such a well done assasin.

Compare that to Diana. If Diana isn't behind. The only interaction point is dodging her Q. Once Q lands on a squishy character that person is dead. However because Diana has no escapes. Once she commits and gets the kill she is either blown-up, or just kinda stand around till her cd's are back up. It is not fun to play against (100-0 w/o any response). Or play as, get a guaranteed kill then its a ****-shoot, no skillful response/plays on your part.

I don't think anyone wants Diana to become a tank. Her theme/lore/play pattern are all set-up to be a relentlessly chasing/killing machine. What people are looking to do so she has more decisions to make, and their are more ways to in turn, outplay her, is to take damage off of her Q-R-R burst and add it to her passive and give her more tools to survive in a fight so while chasing/killing she can continue to fight rather than kill one person than cross her fingers, hoping she can live till her next rotation.
Shut up please, you have no idea what you are talking about.


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Exponential

Junior Member

01-31-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lans1ing View Post
Shut up please, you have no idea what you are talking about.
care to elaborate? I'm trying to contribute to a discussion about a champ I really like. What are you contributing here?


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Neo Aragorn

Senior Member

01-31-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exponential View Post
Burst 100-0 Assassin Diana is unhealthy and un-fun to play as and against.
http://www.lolking.net/summoner/na/45129593#profile

Don't post again. Ever.


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Exponential

Junior Member

01-31-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo Aragorn View Post
Because I'm not great at his game mechanically? That has nothing to do with understanding counter-play and balance.

Way to continue contributing to what was a good discussion though.


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Lans1ing

Senior Member

01-31-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exponential View Post
care to elaborate? I'm trying to contribute to a discussion about a champ I really like. What are you contributing here?
In your second parah you said there is no counter play other than dodging Diana's Q if she is ahead compare to Zed who you can avoid by staying out of his ult range. So what you are saying is that if you stay in zed's ult range you are safe but when Diana lands a Q you can be killed because clearly in your scenario there is no cc on your team to help your adc so she can 100-0 the adc with just one combo of q and r.
What you are saying is not true since Diana simply will have to be very very ahead to simply q r the adc which in that case she should be able because she is fed. Any other champion would be able to the same thing. Now if she not "very very" ahead but only has a slight edge or just has average items she has q, w, r the adc then wait for q to come back up which gives the adc's team to apply cc on her, focus her so she isn't able to q, r the adc with her second combo and while your team focuses her you as a adc can move out of range just as u can from zed's ult range. So please read what you are saying first.


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Maximum Jarvan

Senior Member

01-31-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exponential View Post
I am seeing a lot of people worried that the goal is to make Diana into a Tank type fighter that builds Sunfire ect. I don't think that is anyone's desire. Burst 100-0 Assassin Diana is unhealthy and un-fun to play as and against.

Zed imo is the best designed assassin currently. He has the ability to dive in and 100-0 a Target assuming he isn't way behind. After diving in (if he gets the kill or not) he has tools to get away and wait for his CD's to be up. That is a great feeling and exactly what you want to do as an assassin. Playing against Zed is also fun. There are a lot of opportunities to outplay a Zed and avoid being killed by him. 1. Stay out of range of his ult. 2. Once he ults remove his ult dmg pop (QSS/ Barrier/ Hourglass ect). 3. Or just avoid his dmg after his ult through cc or escapes. That is why Zed is such a well done assasin.

Compare that to Diana. If Diana isn't behind. The only interaction point is dodging her Q. Once Q lands on a squishy character that person is dead. However because Diana has no escapes. Once she commits and gets the kill she is either blown-up, or just kinda stand around till her cd's are back up. It is not fun to play against (100-0 w/o any response). Or play as, get a guaranteed kill then its a ****-shoot, no skillful response/plays on your part.

I don't think anyone wants Diana to become a tank. Her theme/lore/play pattern are all set-up to be a relentlessly chasing/killing machine. What people are looking to do so she has more decisions to make, and their are more ways to in turn, outplay her, is to take damage off of her Q-R-R burst and add it to her passive and give her more tools to survive in a fight so while chasing/killing she can continue to fight rather than kill one person than cross her fingers, hoping she can live till her next rotation.
I actually enjoy her 100-0 style a lot you go through a full spell rotation and there auto attacks and it is over essentially. Assassin playstyle is supposed to be 100-0. Not to mention Ibfeel rewarded for landing her crescent moon skill shot more than I di with Zed who has the point and click Borkt some spells and then leave thing. Don't get me wrong Zed is fun too. However I feel a bigger rush out of going all in and coming out on top then going jn and then running away. I also felt like Zed had more of an all in theme based on loe and whatnot and was not so cowardly that he would put the shadow as an escape route but as an increased kill potential.

So how pray tell will you keep her relentless all in crusader theme while turning her into an auto attack centric champion? Unless you make her passive her ultimate and her ultimate her E and lower the ratio or base damfe on it and then get the vaccum effect on every third attack and have it cleave while creating some sort of steroid when she ults I really don't see how o make this worn. Not to mention she would then need a new passive.

For the record I cannot think of q single champion that was reworked so that they revolved entirely around their passive. Why are we trying to make the core identity of Diana her passive? I am willing to bet money if you looked up a top five plays Diana edition it would not be a bunch of her autoattacking and that's it.