Hell Riot. I love Diana. Lets talk about her please.

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EnderzShadowz

Member

01-30-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vesh View Post
There are a lot of clever ways to make her W synergize with her autoattacks. This is definitely one way to do that, although probably not the cleanest solution. I definitely see value in your goal though and it's a (general) direction that I think is definitely worth considering.
This reminds me of Yasuo's shield passive, only he gains flow with movement, and Diana would gain orbs with AAs.


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Alorasence

Senior Member

01-30-2014

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Originally Posted by ArmySquirrel View Post
This is a bit of a difficult question to answer and may be nuanced. Or it could be that Riven shouldn't have an AD scaling shield. There are some similarities between Riven and Diana though in that both have frequently seen nerfs. I don't know Riven as well as I know Diana, but I will say that I think Diana's AP scaling shield is fine as long as it's on an AP Fighter Diana. As long as she has the up front burst to delete a target and then continues to be tanky while wailing on the rest of the opposing team with her passive, she'll be too much. It's just a question of what things need to be flipped to achieve the desired result, or if she even needs anything changed.

But I don't think we're going to see any buffs to her without a power trade somewhere.
I won't speculate on what I think we'll see in the end, but I don't agree that buffs shouldn't happen without a power trade.

Diana really can't delete someone in the way you are implying. She might have been able to at one point, but she can't now. Unless she's obscenely far ahead.

I don't want to buff her back to release Diana. I'd have to play against her sometimes too :P.

But I do think there is a tweak here or a budge there that can put her in a viable, fun, healthy state.


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Icovarius

Senior Member

01-30-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vesh View Post
This is definitely a possible tactic, since it would allow for her Q->R to still do reasonable damage without the abuse case of the second R.
I'd prefer this. I rarely just Q -> R -> R unless I'm absolutely sure they'll die with the second R or they risk being out of range of a second Q.

Honestly though, I have no idea where the thought people just die after a Q -> R -> R combo. That's definitely not the case anymore unless you're rather far ahead and have something like Lich Bane.


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Maximum Jarvan

Senior Member

01-30-2014

Because we are still on shields I will say this, Riven is a good comparison because her shield gives yet a way out as well. Diana may have a shield but if the fight happens in lane or the jingle was cleared you are not getting out. The shield and surviving I feel is somewhat a reward for successfully diving the carry and not going one for one immediately especially considering the whole moonlight mechanic is a giant warning.

Also since we are talking about shields being so dangerous I have one word. Luxana. Just saying if a Lux stomps lane for whatever reason and is super fed. There is a potential to get 100-0'd and she gets a shield that can help others that scales with her AP. Oriana can do some very respectable damage and gets a fat shield as well. Did you watch the FnC vs Roc game today. Ori almost did a 100-0 on Grags from what 700 units away. I am going to point out that Gragas probably only lived because of his W damage reduction which has not been called toxic by Riot.

What these four champions all have in common is serious burst damage if ahead. However Lux and Ori do it from a distance and get a shield. Ori also. Gets to boost her movement speed which is a form if escape.

Gragas gets flat out damage reduction which is more reliable than a shield in reality and can be just as bursty and all of his skills are AoE. Not to mention even if you don't die his ult probably sent you to one of his teammates where you will die.

Riven can be just as bursty and can build lifesteal also has a shield that scales with an offensive stat and on top of that has much higher mobility with three spells that do AOE damage and a passive that juffs auto attacks for casting spells. Also her ult is am execute in a cone.

In conclusion, the fact that we have four champions right here with higher mobility or safety than her that get shields or damage reduction. Is it really fair to call Diana's shield Toxic. Honestly, I think it just feels that way because there is so much more visual feed back with her than the others. Also Ori and Lux have bonuses on their auto attacks. I think you guys are making this a butter seal than it really is. Her shield can't be toxic and the four champions that I just listed be not toxic then too. Is there a champion that is not toxic at this point?


Please Vesh address this issue.


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Maximum Jarvan

Senior Member

01-30-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icovarius View Post
I'd prefer this. I rarely just Q -> R -> R unless I'm absolutely sure they'll die with the second R or they risk being out of range of a second Q.

Honestly though, I have no idea where the thought people just die after a Q -> R -> R combo. That's definitely not the case anymore unless you're rather far ahead and have something like Lich Bane.
This is extremely true.

Also there was talk about 3's earlier and well just because something is good on that map doesn't mean we should balance her around that entirely. I hear Cass is OP on that map but you guys aren't going to gut her on SR for that. Jayce is absurdly clu my because of how slow his e comes out on that map. Thank God you didn't implement that on SR. Balancing SR off of treeline or making a champion function a certain way because of one map on every map is kind of ehhhh. I mean youu guys don't even encourage pro 3's so why would you change a champion for that map anyways?


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Nine Ravens

Senior Member

01-30-2014

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Originally Posted by Alorasence View Post
That's what I'm saying.

Diana was considered a design masterpiece for a very long time. Literally within the last few months, people have decided she has no counterplay. I retain that she is one of the most well designed champions in this game.

She is slightly undertuned. There is a medium between what she was and what she is. That medium is where I want her to be.

Think of all the horrendously toxic designs and champions in this game. Ones Morello himself has referrred to as poorly designed. Does Diana really belong in the Akali, Talon, Irelia, Kassadin, camp?

I'm just saying, that if Rioters really are aiming to crack down at "counterplay" issues in the game, Diana shouldn't even be on a list like that. There are bigger fish to fry.
Diana has never been considered a masterpiece of mechanical design, though she does hit very well with flavor and thematics. In fact, she was often called 'Akali 2.0' during the post-release period she was dominant in for her similar play pattern in assassinating people with multiple long-range point-and-click gapclosers, making it very difficult to escape or outplay her once she hits her Q on a target. There is valid reason to group her with the champions you name.


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Lans1ing

Senior Member

01-30-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximum Jarvan View Post
I am gonna do it.
I bought the skin and she feels like a new champion in it. Love it!


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Alorasence

Senior Member

01-30-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nine Ravens View Post
Diana has never been considered a masterpiece of mechanical design, though she does hit very well with flavor and thematics. In fact, she was often called 'Akali 2.0' during the post-release period she was dominant in for her similar play pattern in assassinating people with multiple long-range point-and-click gapclosers, making it very difficult to escape or outplay her once she hits her Q on a target. There is valid reason to group her with the champions you name.

Stealth in a world without Oracle's Elixir vs. a shield.

Main source of damage is a targeted point and click vs. skillshot.

Mana vs. Energy.

They do similar things. They are not on equal footing in terms of game health.

I'm just never going to agree with you there.


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Maximum Jarvan

Senior Member

01-30-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lans1ing View Post
I bought the skin and she feels like a new champion in it. Love it!
I can't wait until I can get on again. Not having a computer blows. I am super lucky this skin is sticking around.


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Maximum Jarvan

Senior Member

01-30-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alorasence View Post
Stealth in a world without Oracle's Elixir vs. a shield.

Main source of damage is a targeted point and click vs. skillshot.

Mana vs. Energy.

They do similar things. They are not on equal footing in terms of game health.

I'm just never going to agree with you there.
Pretty sure shroud also gives an armor and magic resist buff. It also grants vision. Diana's shield is some temporary health that does not alter her defensive stats outside of that. Also shroud slows. As far as utility goes if we co pare the two I am pretty sure Akali comes out ahead. It is the main reason why Diana's cc isn't just a slow but also a pull. They could have made it a root to a slow instead but people would probably be even more upset then.