Morello I'm going to give you a proposition that you can not refute.

First Riot Post
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hashinshin

Senior Member

01-30-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Are they unsatisfying for you, or in general game design terms? In game design terms, ADC's are quite satisfying to play well because of the highs/lows/impact of success/failure. Damage is high which has natural feedback loops built into health bars that are designed to feel great in a Pavlovian sense.

ADCs add needed structure and varying target desirability to a team fight, and allow other roles to take a position to protect the QB/set up a run/etc. I think some circumvent good play by lacking weaknesses (overtuned Vayne also comes to mind when that's a thing), but I think good ADC's enrich the game.
What did Digititas tell QTpie when he no longer liked to ADC? Just try to imagine everything is a turret?

Excitement.

Not to mention that ADCs have NEVER not been the #1 class yet constantly ADCs players (even the best, doublelift) complain about them being weak. How can a class be so strong yet seem so weak to the player unless it wasn't satisfying?


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Morello

Lead Designer

01-30-2014
4 of 5 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorsz View Post
@Morello


Why you're here could you please comment on the state of Teemo's mushrooms because I and many people feel they lack sufficient counter play.


Is this even on Riots agenda, or do we have to continue to suffer from lack of counter play options?
Yes - Xyph has been working on this, but we've had issues getting some of the technical pieces in place. Our bad on that, but we think (while not super critical), this violates core principles on this stuff and we want to address.


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ProfDrDeath

Senior Member

01-30-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Are they unsatisfying for you, or in general game design terms? In game design terms, ADC's are quite satisfying to play well because of the highs/lows/impact of success/failure. Damage is high which has natural feedback loops built into health bars that are designed to feel great in a Pavlovian sense.

ADCs add needed structure and varying target desirability to a team fight, and allow other roles to take a position to protect the QB/set up a run/etc. I think some circumvent good play by lacking weaknesses (overtuned Vayne also comes to mind when that's a thing), but I think good ADC's enrich the game.
Where do you put Jinx in that regard? I feel that, while she isn't as much an offender as overtuned Vayne, she also has damn few weaknesses you can capitalize on.

Also, Morello, what do you think of the fact that most ADCs currently are rather AD focused, while the ones relying on AS for their hyperscaling are weaker? Falcon explains that better than me here.


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Croanin

Senior Member

01-30-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Yes - Xyph has been working on this, but we've had issues getting some of the technical pieces in place. Our bad on that, but we think (while not super critical), this violates core principles on this stuff and we want to address.
Xyph you say? O boi bunny....in before Teemo shrooms gain the ability to move and be thrown over walls.


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Morello

Lead Designer

01-30-2014
5 of 5 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by hashinshin View Post
What did Digititas tell QTpie when he no longer liked to ADC? Just try to imagine everything is a turret?

Excitement.

Not to mention that ADCs have NEVER not been the #1 class yet constantly ADCs players (even the best, doublelift) complain about them being weak. How can a class be so strong yet seem so weak to the player unless it wasn't satisfying?
Two possible attributions to that statement:

1) This is the weakest ADC's have been and they still have dictation over fights. The delta between Season 1 Corki and today is big - even Jinx is a shadow of yesterday's marskmen. The delta for long-time players can feel less explosive.

2) Marksmen have a weakness, and many top picks (Shyvana, Mundo, Gragas, Kassadin, Thresh) are safe, reliable and powerful. Being the one guy with an Achilles heel feels pretty bad, even if the problem is too few people have one.


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Whoviantrekgater

Senior Member

01-30-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Are they unsatisfying for you, or in general game design terms? In game design terms, ADC's are quite satisfying to play well because of the highs/lows/impact of success/failure. Damage is high which has natural feedback loops built into health bars that are designed to feel great in a Pavlovian sense.

ADCs add needed structure and varying target desirability to a team fight, and allow other roles to take a position to protect the QB/set up a run/etc. I think some circumvent good play by lacking weaknesses (overtuned Vayne also comes to mind when that's a thing), but I think good ADC's enrich the game.
Yes but the whole game revolves around them... they get baby-sat in lane by the support. They're the number one person to target in a team-fight. As a top or jungler you're either attacking the enemy ADC or peeling for yours. If you're a CC heavy mid then you're job is to lock down the enemy tanks to keep them away from your ADC. As someone that jungles a lot I'm almost to the point of ignoring all lanes but bot because a fed ADC is gg every time unless the enemy team has like a Zed and an Akali. Oh wait. You nerfed them into unviability...


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ProtoStorm

Senior Member

01-30-2014

LOL I absolutely cannot believe this. The weakest role, currently, in the game is being whined about. Wow okay.


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Whoviantrekgater

Senior Member

01-30-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
You shouldn't trust us to keep things intact when they invalidate a number of more rich or interactive options. I think we've earned that reputation fairly.
LOLOLOLOL ok so just delete all ADC's then.


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Xohs

Senior Member

01-30-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Two possible attributions to that statement:

1) This is the weakest ADC's have been and they still have dictation over fights. The delta between Season 1 Corki and today is big - even Jinx is a shadow of yesterday's marskmen. The delta for long-time players can feel less explosive.

2) Marksmen have a weakness, and many top picks (Shyvana, Mundo, Gragas, Kassadin, Thresh) are safe, reliable and powerful. Being the one guy with an Achilles heel feels pretty bad, even if the problem is too few people have one.
Careful brotha, there be bruiser circle jerk threads alurking, and you're in one.


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Some English Guy

Member

01-30-2014

morello, while you're having your usual pis¸sing contest with hashinshin, I have a genuine customer concern regarding your area of game expertise: http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com....php?t=4236619