@Morello You used to work on Guild wars; why not make Soraka a Protection Monk?

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redz

Senior Member

01-29-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cindikle View Post
Frost Queen would provide some decent CC. If it was more viable. Perhaps it needs the charge system.

I like redz's ideas as well. Starcall/infuse combo is very intersting and can setup kills for an APC with the shred.

The heal idea is nice as well. Although I think you may be making it too strong.
one neat thing on starcall/infuse combo i said is that it is not just starcall + infuse.. but starcall + any silence. (silenced enemies allow her to single target Q on them)
i dont know how this may be viewed by people (like: "omg she got possible global range on her Q)), but granted that so few champions got a silence on their skills set.. i think it's a nice perk.
(moreso with starcall being VERY weak at laning phase within my proposed changes, being more useful just to restore mana than for the damage early game)

but imagine her with a rylais... that long range infuse or starcall being an initiation...


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Crackermonster

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Senior Member

01-29-2014

God I love guildwars, have a like


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Killomonger

Senior Member

01-29-2014

gonna have to bump for a few days so morello actually sees this


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redz

Senior Member

01-29-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Killomonger View Post
gonna have to bump for a few days so morello actually sees this
Not a problem. i can keep bumping this or any other thread that proposes changes for soraka.
At least this one is getting good upvotes and feedback.


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Timjin

Senior Member

01-29-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by redz View Post
Mind if i chip in ?
http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com....php?t=4194170

"summing up the text wall on the link (but please, go read it):
keep the long cooldown heals she has, but add weak shields to be used while waiting.
starcall for mid/late damage, infuse for long range poke at early/mid game.
infuse (or really any silence) marks enemies as extra targets for starcall.
change item focus from cooldown/support/ap (that order) to ap/armor/support."

she is the same dedicated healer, but is now also able to later take up the role of a battle priest that thrives in the middle of combat.

i disagree with some of your changes, like adding soft or hard cc on her, or leaving that passive unchanged while changing starcall (i frankly dislike her passive, feels too much like a band aid on her kit).
i like the concept behind current starcall, and why it should be around soraka instead of a skillshot (i.e her putting herself into a dangerous spot, in the mid of chaos.)

I'm cool with any changes that make Soraka less 1-dimensional and I wouldn't mind the battle priestess style either. I personally feel (and feel free to disagree!) that a proactive heal would be best because it adds more to he game than just sustain. A pure heal tends to have to be weak since it can be game warping. Whatever it ends up being, I would love for her to be strong but not toxic.


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Timjin

Senior Member

01-29-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crackermonster View Post
God I love guildwars, have a like
I lost far too many hours on that game but I wouldn't want them back. Made a lot of really good friends because of it. I really miss the oldschool guild battles especially. Probably why I started playing league, though I tend to stay away from the competitive scene these days.


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Morello

Lead Designer

01-29-2014
1 of 4 Riot Posts

I've actually fiddled with this idea a bit - Protection Monk, imo, is one of the most interesting-to-play style healers I've seen, and I used to play it quite a bit in GW1. I like the core idea, but it has some caveats I think it'd need to be successful in LoL.

RoF is the style of spell that can work if you design it around perfect use - IE, a good Soraka would hit it reactively or in chaotic teamfights perfectly - that's a result you can expect out of pretty good players becuase "damage incoming" is a common trigger that will usually activate in most situations. This fact is why Prot/Boon was so strong - RoF is a highly reliable heal due to the ease of the condition that fires the heal.

To me, then, it means that you have to modify the paradigm on that a little, especially since plays like wanding the shield off first aren't actions you can take in League (the interactive portion of the skill). Examples;

* A "cook" (small delay after cast before the shield activates) time that disallows perfect reactive use but favors proactive use; puts a bit of a Sophie's Choice in the enemy's hand of what to do about the incoming RoF.

* An incredibly long cooldown that makes proper use of getting the most out of the shield important (boring, but would work).

* A short duration, and blocks either a spell or auto, but not both. Still would be reactive, but some interactive timing play would exist.

* Heals for X% of damage blocked on the attack, allowing some "wanding" style play to return.

Its just a few ideas, but with some changes it's a possible direction. It also depends on how you weight the block and the heal numerically.

Good post, I like your reasoning sections after each change. Meddler, Scruffy and I are talking about Soraka this week - along with an updated stack-ranking of rework/relaunch prioritization. Yay organization!


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Gods Grunt

Senior Member

01-29-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
I've actually fiddled with this idea a bit - Protection Monk, imo, is one of the most interesting-to-play style healers I've seen, and I used to play it quite a bit in GW1. I like the core idea, but it has some caveats I think it'd need to be successful in LoL.

RoF is the style of spell that can work if you design it around perfect use - IE, a good Soraka would hit it reactively or in chaotic teamfights perfectly - that's a result you can expect out of pretty good players becuase "damage incoming" is a common trigger that will usually activate in most situations. This fact is why Prot/Boon was so strong - RoF is a highly reliable heal due to the ease of the condition that fires the heal.

To me, then, it means that you have to modify the paradigm on that a little, especially since plays like wanding the shield off first aren't actions you can take in League (the interactive portion of the skill). Examples;

* A "cook" (small delay after cast before the shield activates) time that disallows perfect reactive use but favors proactive use; puts a bit of a Sophie's Choice in the enemy's hand of what to do about the incoming RoF.

* An incredibly long cooldown that makes proper use of getting the most out of the shield important (boring, but would work).

* A short duration, and blocks either a spell or auto, but not both. Still would be reactive, but some interactive timing play would exist.

* Heals for X% of damage blocked on the attack, allowing some "wanding" style play to return.

Its just a few ideas, but with some changes it's a possible direction. It also depends on how you weight the block and the heal numerically.

Good post, I like your reasoning sections after each change. Meddler, Scruffy and I are talking about Soraka this week - along with an updated stack-ranking of rework/relaunch prioritization. Yay organization!
lets just throw long CD option out of the window, im sure i speak for all soraka players at the frustration of the timer


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Super Explosion

Senior Member

01-29-2014

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Originally Posted by Morello View Post
* Heals for X% of damage blocked on the attack, allowing some "wanding" style play to return.
Well I mentioned previously the potential for an ally affecting Galio shield, or an ally targeted Abaddon ult.

Attack-triggering heals perhaps can be reasonably assured to be scaling with the action occurring in the game, rather than passive healing.

Although one point of note: Morello, do you consider that the enemy team should ever have a reason to focus a support?

Because in League, they're pretty much helpless little kittens largely unable to defend themselves and almost always ignored by the enemy.

Sort of like accessory buffers, there to pad out the kits of other champions, rather than being core impactful team members.

And that may contribute to gold being somewhat 'bad' on them.


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Morello

Lead Designer

01-29-2014
2 of 4 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Explosion View Post
Well I mentioned previously the potential for an ally affecting Galio shield, or an ally targeted Abaddon ult.

Attack-triggering heals perhaps can be reasonably assured to be scaling with the action occurring in the game, rather than passive healing.

Although one point of note: Morello, do you consider that the enemy team should ever have a reason to focus a support?

Because in League, they're pretty much helpless little kittens largely unable to defend themselves and almost always ignored by the enemy.

Sort of like accessory buffers, there to pad out the kits of other champions, rather than being core impactful team members.

And that may contribute to gold being somewhat 'bad' on them.
It's hard to do without removing a lot of agency - "Kill the healer" play could do this, but it tends to not leave a lot of room for additional play (isn't this both the boon and problem with ADC?)

I do feel supports should support, as in need someone else to be at their most effective. That could use to be more impactful than currently later in the game, I think.


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