What we expected when Riot said "Support Utility will scale with AP"

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Æsthetîcs

Senior Member

01-29-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
So, two things:

1) Agree support scaling needs a tuning pass. More follow-up we need to do there.
2) Stop with the "ONLY NON-SUPPORTS ARE IN-GAME" when Lulu, Nami, Taric and even some Janna are getting played in lieu of this. Don't overblow a reasonable critique of the scaling satisfaction with false and sensationalized statements.
ive been seeing a LOT of lulu supports, 90% of them are scripted >_> and impossible to lane against


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Tempname12324

Member

01-29-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
2) Stop with the "ONLY NON-SUPPORTS ARE IN-GAME" when Lulu, Nami, Taric and even some Janna are getting played in lieu of this.
I wish I was playing the same game you are, Morollo.


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Raphael JR

Senior Member

01-29-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
So, two things:

1) Agree support scaling needs a tuning pass. More follow-up we need to do there.
2) Stop with the "ONLY NON-SUPPORTS ARE IN-GAME" when Lulu, Nami, Taric and even some Janna are getting played in lieu of this. Don't overblow a reasonable critique of the scaling satisfaction with false and sensationalized statements.
Noone says nami, lulu and some others are not viable, even alistar and soraka were picked several times in OGN and LCS, but ENTIRE preseason passed with NO help to supports that they do need.
Also several non conventional supports showed up, mumu, lee sin, and kennen.

And if you dont see that thresh leona and annie are better then all by LARGE margin, well i honestly dont know.


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Telosa

Senior Member

01-29-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
So, two things:

1) Agree support scaling needs a tuning pass. More follow-up we need to do there.
2) Stop with the "ONLY NON-SUPPORTS ARE IN-GAME" when Lulu, Nami, Taric and even some Janna are getting played in lieu of this. Don't overblow a reasonable critique of the scaling satisfaction with false and sensationalized statements.
While I agree people like to over exaggerate about how little traditional supports are used, you can't deny the fact that the nerfs to support just encouraged players to instead use tanky supports who scale well with CDR instead. That's why Taric, Leona and Thresh are so popular right now - even if their damage output is mostly weaker than before, they're in a far stronger place right now and their traditional counters like Janna and Lulu aren't strong enough to counter their place in the meta. More importantly, since Taric, Leona and Thresh were designed to be effective tanks on a support's budget, they benefit far from an increase in their budget than traditional supports who had all of their base damages reduced. You can always nerf the benefit an item gives to a champion by altering their scaling with abilites, but it's hard to nerf the 'scaling' armor and magic resist gives to a champion who's already naturally tanky.


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SKT T1 Caitlyn

Member

01-29-2014

bumpp


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Morello

Lead Designer

01-29-2014
2 of 4 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mappy View Post
They are absolutely, good situational picks.

But quite honestly, you can't deny thresh/leona/annie are overall much superior options.
That might be true. I just don't want the support "religious argument" to cloud the conversation about support scaling needing more work.

We agree there generally (and some of this is in the support items, too - Xyph and friends are plowing on that right now).

EDIT: Evident with the reactionary downvotes in this thread. Realllllly? You can't even not downvote a post I agree they need love?


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Xaxziminrax

Senior Member

01-29-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
So, two things:

1) Agree support scaling needs a tuning pass. More follow-up we need to do there.
2) Stop with the "ONLY NON-SUPPORTS ARE IN-GAME" when Lulu, Nami, Taric and even some Janna are getting played in lieu of this. Don't overblow a reasonable critique of the scaling satisfaction with false and sensationalized statements.
I think a large part of the issue is that with a lot of the supports, even if the numbers get balanced, it's difficult to feel like you're doing impactful stuff. IIRC, this was one of the main arguments on how auras weren't used, even when they were stupidly gold efficient.

And it only feels worse when champs like Yasuo come out that jump all over the freaking screen.

Honestly, I think that while balance tuning is needed, flashier particles would go a LONG ways towards improving player experience with a lot of these champs. I mean, Janna gives you a shield, but Annie drops a bear on your head. Obviously she's in a better state than Janna, but she also looks like she's doing more for the team, because her stuff is so pretty compared to a shield and a tiny bird.


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VoyMachoboy

Senior Member

01-29-2014

Haha Morello...
Buff Zyra you completely trashed her just because she played "support"


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Morello

Lead Designer

01-29-2014
3 of 4 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaxziminrax View Post
I think a large part of the issue is that with a lot of the supports, even if the numbers get balanced, it's difficult to feel like you're doing impactful stuff. IIRC, this was one of the main arguments on how auras weren't used, even when they were stupidly gold efficient.

And it only feels worse when champs like Yasuo come out that jump all over the freaking screen.

Honestly, I think that while balance tuning is needed, flashier particles would go a LONG ways towards improving player experience with a lot of these champs. I mean, Janna gives you a shield, but Annie drops a bear on your head. Obviously she's in a better state than Janna, but she also looks like she's doing more for the team, because her stuff is so pretty compared to a shield and a tiny bird.
Satisfaction on "buffs" is quite difficult overall. I think Nami does better than most supports here due to being more modern in terms of VFX and feedback.


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Priamos

Senior Member

01-29-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
So, two things:

1) Agree support scaling needs a tuning pass. More follow-up we need to do there.
2) Stop with the "ONLY NON-SUPPORTS ARE IN-GAME" when Lulu, Nami, Taric and even some Janna are getting played in lieu of this. Don't overblow a reasonable critique of the scaling satisfaction with false and sensationalized statements.
Thank you for posting, Morello, but I honestly cannot remember the last time Janna was played in competitive outside of a few challenger games. Meanwhile, Leona and Thresh dominate games in competitive and are ridiculously popular in solo queue.

I agree that Nami/Lulu/Taric occasionally see some play, but it's small potatoes compared to Leona/Thresh/Annie. It's really annoying that they come up practically every game in competitive, and make solo queue bot laning an incredibly stale experience.

I know that I was being hyperbolic, but not by much, and that's what saddens me.