Hell Riot. I love Diana. Lets talk about her please.

First Riot Post
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masterflinter

Junior Member

01-29-2014

What about making her a little tankier and then giving her other abilities more utility while lowering her burst. Maybe add a mini Moonfall to her ultimate or increase the range on her current Moonfall. An AP Bruiser who fits in with an AOE-damage based team is something the game doesn't currently have.


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Xehnon

Member

01-29-2014

I liked the idea of attack speed bruiser initiator. Would just remove the Q-R-R combo and move it to her passive or something.

Passive could lower the cooldown of the ultimate by a flat amount or % amount ala Master Yi. This way she would get to stick to her target and that would put her in the initiator, go in & stay in role.

Just a thought.

Could also just give R a passive and active and remove the refresher.


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SerBlaise

Member

01-29-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by masterflinter View Post
What about making her a little tankier and then giving her other abilities more utility while lowering her burst. Maybe add a mini Moonfall to her ultimate or increase the range on her current Moonfall. An AP Bruiser who fits in with an AOE-damage based team is something the game doesn't currently have.
In all honesty this is what I am afraid of from a Diana tweak. The fun of Diana is in her almost dance-like initiation and positioning and repositioning of the enemy via her E pull and R gap closer. finishing off an enemy carry with an R->passive AA cleave is extremely satisfying. Having her hack away while being tanky seems less fun. I've played Diana with AD-Yi crit chance/AS builds, and it just isn't as fun as killing with her abilities. Leona offers this tanky fighter build: I think Diana (as the lore-counterpart to leona) should be different.


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zitchy14

Senior Member

01-29-2014

What's so upsetting about Diana again? She's primarily an assassin, if an assassin gets fed, they can combo a squishy from full health before they can react. It happens all the time with assassins like Kha, Rengar, Akali or Fizz. Why is it a problem when Diana does it? Her counter play is dodging the skill shot. Avoid it and initiate, knowing that her assassination potential is pretty low without landing her Q.


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SmokingPuffin

Senior Member

01-29-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximum Jarvan View Post
Also I am sorry about typos. I typed this novel on a smartphone and so some of them were not noticed like in the title for example.
Now that's dedication!

I totally want to play Diana. She's my favorite champion design from an art, character, and lore perspective. This is yet another one of those frustrating Riot decisions to leave a champion intentionally weak for an indefinite period of time.

I have more faith in the AP fighter Diana rework concept than the assassin concept you propose. I would really like to preserve the decision making aspect of her R between using it immediately to engage a fight, going QRR for maximum stickiness, or going QR...QR for sustained fights.


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Rauron

Senior Member

01-29-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vesh View Post
I'd love to have more discussion about her.
Okay, then let's talk about Iron Stylus's vision for her and how that guided her kit's design. Diana is troubled, to put it mildly, and the self-destructive risk of her play grew out of the almost apathetic view she has of the world in general. I don't remember his exact words, so forgive me if I mess up a couple of points, but the idea of her being an assassin/fighter is actually kind of the point. But, of course, that's toxic, so there needs to be a way to preserve the feeling of "go in, don't expect to get out, make them suffer" without keeping the "hit Q, thing dies, now walk off" reality of her current tuning. I have a few ideas:

1. Lower the base damage of Q, let it do more damage to minions. That way, she doesn't have a strong poke game or 2-button kill combo, but she can push her lane decently well to go roam. Also allowing her to clear monsters quickly would accomplish similar goals.

2. Lower the cooldown for her vacuum. Buffing her main disruption ability will allow her to stick to targets, encourage her to remain close to multiple enemies, allow more procs of her passive, ease the need for an initial burst, and lean her heavily towards "fighter" as opposed to "assassin".

3. Lower the cooldown of her shield, its minimum damage, its minimum shield amount, and the speed at which all three spheres trigger (e.g. lower the speed of their orbiting). Basically, allow her to maintain solid DPS and tankiness if she stays surrounded by enemies, but knock off a lot of the initial easy burst damage.

4. Flatten the cooldown on her ult, increase the range by a bit, and slightly lower its damage. Basically, give her a more consistent "just go in now" button that has more room to become a "go in and poof" button when someone doesn't play her correctly.

5. Increase her base attack speed, increase the range and ratio on her passive. She needs to keep her incentive to build AP, since that's what makes her squishy outside of well-handled teamfights, and she is primarily about light disruption and solid consistent damage.

What would also be really great is having Iron come in here and talk for a bit about what his original vision was for Diana, and what play pattern he would consider to be ideal. Leona, for instance, has a really strong character that completely comes through in her playstyle. Diana should have that.


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Letler

Senior Member

01-29-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vesh View Post
Q is already an extremely reliable skillshot. it has a large width, moves very fast, and has an AoE explosion on the end. Making her not stop to cast it would accentuate this problem even more.

Thematics are important, but should not compromise gameplay.

(Part of the reason why the Q being so reliable isn't very good is because it enables her to go R->R right afterward extremely reliably to just kill someone)
So, Diana's Skill shot indicator is pretty rad and unique. I love how it gives you an idea of how big the AoE explosion on the end is. Is there we could somehow translate this similar indicator to someone like Karma who also gets AoE's on both her regular Q and RQ? It would be really nice to know approximately what size I am working with when shooting of a Q in lane and an RQ I plan on laying down to slow the enemy. Does that make sense?


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LifeSmash

Senior Member

01-29-2014

What if Riot tinkered with her burst damage such that it ramps up while she remains in combat? She gets in, disrupts and tanks a bit, but tries to wait until the last minute before attempting to burst someone down?


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Eternal Student

Senior Member

01-29-2014

Diana doesn't need buffs at all. Have you even ever built DFG on her? She's a monster with DFG and Lich Bane. There's no way at all she needs buffs, she's a balanced champion.


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ZallKlos

Senior Member

01-29-2014

Not easy being a AP version of Xin, Vi, J4 and Irelia.

The fighter class has always been a mess, Diana just happens to be a AP fighter instead of AD.