"vi ult has no counterplay"

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JuiceBox TERA

Senior Member

01-25-2014

GA and Banshees overrated.

I buy Zhonyas on Tristana/Ezreal/Miss Fortune/Corki/Kogmaw as my defensive item.

Think about it, it's the best, god baits, ADC with Zhonyas, even after youve baited them 5 times in the same game the natural jump on the adc and assassinate mentality is too strong for them to resist getting baited into dying a 6th time.


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The Micro Z

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Senior Member

01-25-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Better Ban Vi View Post
If the situation is that bad to where it's practically a 1/5 because you have 1 damage dealer and no cc, then you were probably going to lose anyways.
here is the problem with this kind of counterplay yes it is "Counterplay" in definition however as riot has stressed this counterplay is to "demanding" in other words its like saying "just cc them" when you say "just move her away from her team" not only that but having a champion who litterly counters everyone who dosnt have a blink and soft counters everyone in the game (fizz?) is not balanced also forceing champions to buy a item in order to play agenst her is acceptable in most situations but this is not one of those situations


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Wezz

Senior Member

01-25-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gd Bot View Post
yea adcs get zhonyas and yea morganas r in every game
That's how OP zhonya's is, 2.5S stasis on 90 seconds or revive on FIVE MINUITES?

Nerf zhoyna's, +1 to op


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FlamingFrostbite

Senior Member

01-25-2014

So who played Vi in what tourney? The literal only reason people now are messing with her.


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JuiceBox TERA

Senior Member

01-25-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlamingFrostbite View Post
So who played Vi in what tourney? The literal only reason people now are messing with her.
Everyone for the past 3 months?

Shes been FOTM for months now lol.


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MyApocalyps3

Member

01-25-2014

I don't think the only problem people have is her ult. It's also the fact that she does half of your adc's health with one rotation. That's the part that has no counter play.

Yes she is in the middle of the enemy team, but it doesn't matter since she was able to take away the majority of your Damage dealers health and your team can easily roll in and clean up


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Zileas

VP of Game Design

01-25-2014
1 of 6 Riot Posts

Hey Bro,

Hope your night is going well. I for one am PARTAYING over here with a cup of coffee and my work laptop, and took a break from some email to read your thread.

Anyhow, I don't 100% agree with how you are using counterplay. I think Zhonyas and 'shouldve picked that champion' arent really good examples.

Counterplay has to do with RICHNESS of responses that are typically available. It does not have to do with COUNTERS. Most of what you are listing are either absolute responses (counters) or infrequent responses (a subset of champions that do have good counterplay against her). Good counterplay means that in a high amount of situations, opponents can make responses to what you are doing that have some chance of success, but more importantly, are interesting to both of you (and preferably have subtlety in execution, and lots of it-depends, potential for skill mastery on both ends, and so forth)

About half of what you are suggesting fits into this. using blinks, fast moves, snares to stop her -- all legit, and stuff she can try to bait out, or act later to reduce efficacy. It's a fair critique though that a lot of champions don't have an answer, and that's not ideal. In an ideal world, all champions would have SOME Counterplay vs her in general, and there are definitely cases where it's more flat. I don't think she's the worst offender, but it's not a totally unfair critique.

We as designers here really do need to get on top of this stuff and continue to gradually improve the % of situations that contain strong counterplay, but this stuff takes time. Hoping we can make a dent in it at the role level first.

Anyhow, thanks for the post.


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Gaggle of Koalas

Senior Member

01-25-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by zileas View Post
hey bro,

hope your night is going well. I for one am partaying over here with a cup of coffee and my work laptop, and took a break from some email to read your thread.

Anyhow, i don't 100% agree with how you are using counterplay. I think zhonyas and 'shouldve picked that champion' arent really good examples.

Counterplay has to do with richness of responses that are typically available. It does not have to do with counters. Most of what you are listing are either absolute responses (counters) or infrequent responses (champions that do have good counterplay against her. Good counterplay means that in a lot of situations, opponents can make responses to what you are doing that have some chance of success, but more importantly, are interesting to both of you (and have subtlety in execution, and lots of it-depends, and so forth)

about half of what you are suggesting fits into this. Using blinks, fast moves, snares to stop her -- all legit. It's a fair critique though that a lot of champions don't have an answer, and that's not ideal. In an ideal world, all champions would have some counterplay vs her in general, and there are definitely cases where it's more flat. I don't think she's the worst offender, but it's not a totally unfair critique.

Anyhow, thanks for the post.
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FlamingFrostbite

Senior Member

01-25-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by MyApocalyps3 View Post
I don't think the only problem people have is her ult. It's also the fact that she does half of your adc's health with one rotation. That's the part that has no counter play.

Yes she is in the middle of the enemy team, but it doesn't matter since she was able to take away the majority of your Damage dealers health and your team can easily roll in and clean up
Simple fix to this problem, work as a team. Once Vi has rammed into your ADC like usual the support or other tanks should be 2v1 or 3v1ing her. Easy kill then the rest of your team should be fight to make sure that the others don't finish Vi's job or if they do make them pay for it.


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Hippopotamus G

Senior Member

01-25-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zileas View Post
Hey Bro,

Hope your night is going well. I for one am PARTAYING over here with a cup of coffee and my work laptop, and took a break from some email to read your thread.

Anyhow, I don't 100% agree with how you are using counterplay. I think Zhonyas and 'shouldve picked that champion' arent really good examples.

Counterplay has to do with RICHNESS of responses that are typically available. It does not have to do with COUNTERS. Most of what you are listing are either absolute responses (counters) or infrequent responses (a subset of champions that do have good counterplay against her). Good counterplay means that in a high amount of situations, opponents can make responses to what you are doing that have some chance of success, but more importantly, are interesting to both of you (and preferably have subtlety in execution, and lots of it-depends, potential for skill mastery on both ends, and so forth)

About half of what you are suggesting fits into this. using blinks, fast moves, snares to stop her -- all legit, and stuff she can try to bait out, or act later to reduce efficacy. It's a fair critique though that a lot of champions don't have an answer, and that's not ideal. In an ideal world, all champions would have SOME Counterplay vs her in general, and there are definitely cases where it's more flat. I don't think she's the worst offender, but it's not a totally unfair critique.

Anyhow, thanks for the post.
great post