@Scarizard how doth I summon you.

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UnderworldH4des

Senior Member

01-23-2014

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TastyPotatoX

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01-23-2014

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TastyPotatoX

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01-23-2014

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TastyPotatoX

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Scarizard

Live Balance Designer

01-24-2014
1 of 2 Riot Posts

Making this post to remind myself to speak to you - what specifically did you have in mind/want to talk about?


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OGZ Poptart Cat

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Senior Member

01-24-2014

I'm really curious on the plan route for TF as well. He was always my "I'm feeling lucky" champion. But I don't feel so lucky with him at the moment.


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HowDoIShot

Senior Member

01-24-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
Making this post to remind myself to speak to you - what specifically did you have in mind/want to talk about?
To summarize his thread, TF has had nerf after nerf (ult cooldown, ult range, passive CDR, global passive, pick a card length, mana sustain) recently, and they've left him in a bad spot.

The mana sustain was particularly egregious, because TF loses most lane matchups against bursty assassins and mages, and can't even farm safely with his Q anymore because his mana sustain was nerfed.

His conclusion was that TF was in a very poor spot, and had low win rates since this string of nerfs. He was looking for your thoughts, as Morello suggested you had comments on the subject:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
I don't have a lot of thoughts on TF (as after the global changes, I haven't been super involved in his numerics), but I know Scar has thoughts. I'll see if he can swing by.


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Furi Kuri

Member

01-24-2014

He'll just rework him into something even worse.


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Urfing Around

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01-24-2014

Personally, as a non-TF player, I think the duration of his W could use tweaking after the last nerf. I understand that it was too powerful in lane to be able to hold on to gold cards for so long, but I think this created two problems:

1) significantly increased the difficulty of ganking with TF (an already hard champion), as you need to lock in a gold card during your teleport or risk losing it if there's any delay in catching up to your target

2) hindered TF's team fighting a bit too much. as a squishy champion with low mobility, it's important to be able to pick safe opportunities to walk into auto range. because you can no longer hold onto gold cards, you need to pick it when you're going to use it, which means that any kind of error in judgement will waste your card and force you to deal with the cooldown before being able to contribute. This is kind of a big deal.

I think it would be interesting if the duration of TF's cards after locking in increased with champion level. It starts out low at level 1, increases at 6-7 to help with ganking and increases again at 12-14 to help with team fighting. Something like 4, 6 and 8 seconds seems reasonable. It just feels like the last nerf made an already difficult champion wayyyy too punishing of mistakes with his W. (Another idea that just came to mind is to make the cooldown halved if a card isn't actually thrown, but I haven't given this one much thought)

Again, just my opinion as a non-TF player. Feel free to tell me I suck and I'm stupid.


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TastyPotatoX

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01-24-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
Making this post to remind myself to speak to you - what specifically did you have in mind/want to talk about?
Thanks for the response.

Specifically, I can totally understand why you guys had to nerf his global presence. His global ult was on a short cooldown to the point you could auto win bot lane every game. I can also see why his passive was changed to eliminate the free global power. So you guys nerfed the things Twisted Fate is best at, Global Pressure. But then you guys nerfed his mana sustain to an abysmal level as well as his passive cool down reduction. Why did you guys hit his laning phase when he is already a weak laner? He gets zoned by most of the popular mids right now and with the laning nerfs it makes it hard for him to push at all. Was the passive change supposed to make up for the farm he is going to be denied?

I would also like to add a bit on his gank potential. So the whole reason we play TF is to create 2v1 and 3v2 situations where we can come out ahead and take objectives right? Well after the blue card nerfs I see myself quickly running out of mana. This makes it hard to clear when I hit level 6 and still have enough mana to ult and pull off a full combo as I often run out of mana or do not have enough. Since you guys nerfed his ult and cool down reduction, why could you guys not put more power into his ganks to compensate? Also more and more times I see myself buying chalice and grail just to keep up the push against my laning opponents and to have enough mana to use my ult and combo. These items just don't feel very cool to use on Twisted Fate. I enjoyed being able to run movement speed quints and not worry about my mana as much, being able to get lichbane and twin shadows to maximize my gank potential (fun items). Can't do that anymore. Twin Shadows is like the best item ever on TF in solo Q. It gives you AP, valuable magic resist, movement speed (TF loves movement speed) and a nice slow. Chalice gives you no AP and if you start with MS quints you are super super weak in lane.

Twisted Fate is one of the hardest champions in the game for sure. You need the map awareness of a Jungler, the Mechanics of an ADC, the balls of a top laner, and the peel of a support. But right now he feels so lackluster. For a champion with a high skill cap I don't see the payoff right now as opposed to someone like zed that has a better lane phase and scales better AND has arguably better splitpush capabilities. In addition, unlike other roaming mids such as kassadin, zed, katarina, akali, ahri ect. TF needs his team. His damage is super low for a mage. You can ult and ping all you want, but if your team does not follow up you are useless (you can't 1v1 anyone unless fed). You end up ulting bot, missing farm, missing experience, and wasting time. Is it even possible to make him better in solo Q without making him a 100% pick / ban in pros?

What is to become of Twisted fate? Is he going to stay this way? Is he going to be reworked?
I would prefer he not be reworked because his kit is so cool (except for his E). Either way thanks for your time to hear me out. Now I'm late for class. Totally worth though.


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