Rengar Rework Strikes Back

First Riot Post
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Mordecant

Junior Member

01-23-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
Hey Scruffy, here's a crazy idea I had, that I should probably email you about, but, let's throw caution to the wind.

[Disclaimer, this idea is half-baked and there might be a great reason to not do it]

Trinkets are about vision, right? What if instead of a ward, a scan or a clairvoyance, activating the bonetooth necklace gave you 4 seconds of the heat sensitive detection Rengar gets during his ultimate?
This sounds really cool, maybe something like how the twin shadows active works where it draws a trail towards nearby enemies and then reveals them. Feels more like tracking/hunting.


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RuneKatashima

Senior Member

01-23-2014

I have a comment about the Bonetooth Necklace not necessarily regarding Rengar.

I really like the idea of a champ specific item and I'd like to see more of it. Only Viktor has his own item and I'd like to see Viktor's go the same way Rengar's does now if you guys plan on making it a trinket go through.

When I say I'd like to see more of it I don't just mean future champs but current champs as well. It adds a lot of story and depth to a character in-game and presents a sort of unique diversity path. I just like the idea that you can use an item to augment your SKILLS rather than just your stats. That idea sits very well with me.

Please do more of that <3


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Tbonebakker

Junior Member

01-23-2014

Please Read This Section For Relevant Comments:

I think I can live with everything but this.

Quote:
-Ferocity stacks will reset to 0 if they are not used or gained for 10 seconds
^ NO NO NO -> why this is bad for JUNGLE RENGARS > This game is %80 based on timing and positioning. Fact, sometimes you need to wait for a good gank. This is just baiting rengars to jump in and make bad decisions and become feeders. It's lose lose, time expires, you now have a weak gank, or you go in with little to no time because you wasted half of your 10 sec just coming out of the jungle.

This is focused around the early gank, which has a huge impact on how Rengar scales the rest of the game.


Please Read This Section For Irrelevant Comments:

1)Top lane Rengars are in insult to the skills and capabilities of a jungle Rengar.

2)Yes, Rengar is very OP right now, and that's why he is currently my favorite jungler. I love the way he is right now even with the recent update. And it will make me cry when these new reworks come out. (but hey, maybe they will make him stronger?)

3)Yes, Bonetooth is OP as it stands right now.


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DarkSlayerr

Senior Member

01-23-2014

No, please dont do this D:


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archibald94

Senior Member

01-23-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
Q

E
-E is now a skillshot
-E range increased from 575 to 1000
-Damage increased
-Slow increased
-Ferocity E deals damage based on champion level not spell level
-Ferocity E root duration increased

R
-Stealth duration increased from 7s to 10s
-Rengar no longer gains movement speed while stealthed
-After exiting stealth, Rengar now gains a significant movement speed buff for 5 seconds
-The Ferocity gain begins after Rengar exits stealth instead of when the stealth begins

Bonetooth Necklace
-Now is a trinket!
-Costs 0 gold!
-Has a new active that places a temporary ward
-No longer gives AD or AD per level
-3 Trophy Bonus: Movement speed out of combat and in brush
-6 Trophy Bonus: Additional leap range
-9 Trophy Bonus: Increased Thrill of the Hunt stealth duration
-14 Trophy Bonus: Gain movement speed while stealthed in Thrill of the Hunt

-Scruffy
First his E, its fine please dont change it, bola bola is a soft cc not a poke skill leave it be.

Second his R(ultimate), a nope from me again because of no ferocity regen when stealth, that will make his ultimate usage gives no kill guaranteed.

Third the bonetooth trinkets, love it


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RiotScruffy

Game Designer

01-23-2014
14 of 48 Riot Posts

Update time!

First off, the new Rengar kit is really fun and still feels like the Rengar we love. Both Scarizard and I have played some games on him and we are testing him evenly in top and jungle. Here are a few updates from our tests and your feedback:

-The second roar on W ended up feeling kinda clunky and messed up the flow of his play so we are now trying a version where W only does 1 roar but we are lowering the cooldown to let him get ferocity at a faster pace in long fights
-The passive now only decays when out of combat for 10 seconds instead of 10 seconds after an ability has been used. This helps him a lot in the jungle in keeping his stacks up going from camp to camp. It also just makes a bunch more sense as a player.

-Scruffy


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NA Darklarik

Senior Member

01-23-2014

Edit: IM BELOW SCRUFFY!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post

Passive
-Ferocity stacks will reset to 0 if they are not used or gained for 10 seconds
no. This i do not like at all, it would hurt the hell out of Jungle Rengar, there is no way he would be able to gank with a lane with a Feroz bonus pre-6, like Yasuo his chances of building up 5 feroz in the middle of a gank would be impossible. Dont like this Changes at all.

If possible, you could experiment with giving him up to 100 ferozity and different levels of gain from his abilities, like 20, and it decays at a slower pace, like Renekton's. Idk really dont like the fact he loses it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
Q
-Cooldown lowered at all ranks
-Ferocity Q now gives the same attack speed buff as base Q
-Ferocity Q now gives 3 ferocity after it is used
-Ferocity Q damage scales on champ level instead of spell level
Noice, may i also sudjest a increase in the speed of the animation or a slight range increase for the blow, similar to Wukongs Q, because there are moments where it feels like the ability just dosent land despite the range, and since your on a 2 second window....
Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post

W
-3 Seconds after the initial roar, Rengar roars again for PBAOE damage and builds another Ferocity
-Ferocity W scales on champion level instead of spell level
This post is confusing, not exactly sure what the full roar ability and its empowered version does. From what i can comprehend its now a dual damaging Roar one initial and one after 3 seconds, dont know how long the armor and mag resis are meant to last. Not sure i like this change overall, its understandable given the passive change.

I liked Scarizard's idea of a roar that decreases Champion's attack damage instead of giving flat free defensive stats.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
E
-E is now a skillshot
-E range increased from 575 to 1000
-Damage increased
-Slow increased
-Ferocity E deals damage based on champion level not spell level
-Ferocity E root duration increased
I like everything about this. Would liek to see numbers though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
R
-Stealth duration increased from 7s to 10s
-Rengar no longer gains movement speed while stealthed
-After exiting stealth, Rengar now gains a significant movement speed buff for 5 seconds
-The Ferocity gain begins after Rengar exits stealth instead of when the stealth begins
Not sure i like this, i was really strating to like Scarizard's Prowl/Stalk Ultimate, this would seem like you inversed the order of the effects, despite how he had said that it wasent a good idea. The build up also means both in ganks and TFs he might very well DIE before he builds up full feroz. Id have to test it out to see how it handles, but i was more in love with the previous iteration.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
Bonetooth Necklace
-Now is a trinket!
-Costs 0 gold!
-Has a new active that places a temporary ward
-No longer gives AD or AD per level
-3 Trophy Bonus: Movement speed out of combat and in brush
-6 Trophy Bonus: Additional leap range
-9 Trophy Bonus: Increased Thrill of the Hunt stealth duration
-14 Trophy Bonus: Gain movement speed while stealthed in Thrill of the Hunt
Wow, um, nice idea, sounds a bit OP. How long is the ward? Does this item upgrade? Maybe you should make it upgradable so that the later 2 effects are can either be unlocked at lv 9 or with a bit of gold (and the necessary trophies as well). Like this iteration very very much.

Overall i think your in the right direction, minus the passive changes :/ One last thing i would like to add regarding his leap, would it be too OP to make it that every 10 seconds Rengar gains the ability to use his leap on his next basic attack without the need to have a brush around? This "Land" leap could have its own internal cooldown, while the Brush one dosent, this way rengar has a more consistent and reliable gap closer. just my 2 cents.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
Hey Scruffy, here's a crazy idea I had, that I should probably email you about, but, let's throw caution to the wind.

[Disclaimer, this idea is half-baked and there might be a great reason to not do it]

Trinkets are about vision, right? What if instead of a ward, a scan or a clairvoyance, activating the bonetooth necklace gave you 4 seconds of the heat sensitive detection Rengar gets during his ultimate?
XELANTH DA GOD!
Quote:
Originally Posted by NA Darklarik View Post
Seing how BTN is, despite the fact that it is free, Nerfed, so to speak, if placed into comparison with the Stats the live one gives as oppose to the one this one will give,

can you make it so if Rengar wins the "Hunt is ON" event against Khazix, he unlocks some special effect (other than just full stacks) to compensate for the indirect "buff" or greater reward Khazix is getting against him should he win?


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BelligerentGnu

Senior Member

01-23-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
To clarify, Rengar is not getting priority over Sion right now. I am personally working on Rengar, but there are two (yes two) other designers working on Sion as we speak. Sion is a big deal for us and we really want to give him the upgrade he deserves. Rengar may release before Sion, but that is not something that we know for sure yet.
Speaking of which, when can we find out some preliminary details about the Sion rework?


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C13Magnum

Member

01-23-2014

It sounds like we're getting less assassin rengar and more dive fighter rengar. Does his ult still remove all ferocity on cast in this version? Instead of the speed boost after the ult ends, can we get a leap for 5 seconds buff (or possibly 1/2 additional leaps for 5 seconds out of stealth)? I'm thinking of a pouncing knifecat that can keep leaping at his prey even as he gets cc'ed off him (seeing as how it seems he won't burst people any more). Similar to how he acts when people stay in bushes against him. Fits his motif.

Some downsides I see are his added stacks possibly screwing up his new combo (basically you hit w or e when the ult moves your stacks from 4 to 5 and you get an empowered ability other than q).


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GhastlyGhoulMan

Senior Member

01-23-2014

Quick question RiotScruffy (or anybody else for that matter), do you think it would be beneficial in ANY way to do something similar with Viktor's Upgrade item, i.e. making it a trinket? Then you could upgrade it like usual (perhaps with some stat changes if it's really necessary), and it would free up a much needed item slot for him. What's your opinion?