Why do we do reworks?

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OverpoweredSoap

Senior Member

01-16-2014

The only rework I'm not completely happy about is Karma's.

I like new Karma, don't get me wrong, but I don't like her as Karma.
New Karma has grown on me as a new champion but she has yet to grow on me as Karma.

The only 2 things that keep me from liking new Karma is that:

1. It seems as if you didn't try to work with her old kit at all, you gave her some small buffs in one patch and then completely left her in the dust, and didn't go anywhere from there, and just reworked her.

2. The kits are really, really, really different. New Karma is a kiter, who excels at making pretty much every Melee champions' life hell. Old Karma was a bruiser like support/mage that excelled at keeping herself or someone else on her team alive with her huge shield and her decent heal.


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Maximum Jarvan

Senior Member

01-16-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raptoreyes View Post
That is a difficult thing to program in. Most assassins are gods of 1v1 play so if you give them skill shots they will simply close to point blank range before releasing the hounds. Now if you made assassins have low enough burst AND high enough cooldowns THEN assassins could have a healthy role as a finisher class with high mobility but the ability to 1v1 squishes and severely maul tanks has to go.



All the more reason to bring the amount of burst damage WAY WAY down as high damage always compresses reaction windows down below what mid tier players can handle. This is one of the main reasons league has a large player base of casuals and professionals seeking a large audience of stream revenue.

Compare that to DoTA and HoN which gives mid tier players insufficient time to deal with assassin attack runs. This is the reason LoL's competitors are dying out save for a tiny few hardcore fans with reaction times and connection ping well above the average gamer's ken.

Assassins tend to just be toxic because high damage and high mobility tend to lead to a toxic play experience on the receiving end.

Their may be a way to fix this but most assassin players would HATE this solution. Assassin's would become the "finisher class" unable to duel anything but the most squishy champs but featuring more mobility then they have now. Make no mistake that assassins as 1v1 gods they are now just makes the game feel terrible for all other roles. Like dedicated healers (Soraka) assassins must FEEL WEAK in order to be balanced.
Dude assassins are supposed to kill not just be janitors. If they have no damage then you might as well not pick them. Soraka and Lulu can ruin a Zed's day so I don't know what you're worried about. Also when itemized against properly assassins don't just roll anyone. People need to stop thinking about how last season as a support you had no gold and got popped by wrong looks. Ther is more gold in the game now which is a nerd to assassins in of itself because they can't farm weak champions. They don't need to only be able to kill a glass cannon. They need people to at least try to understand the game.


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Zerothma

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Senior Member

01-16-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by FeralPony View Post
I'll answer in terms of team priorities to rework not release date since everything is always subject to change.

Zilean - Room Temperature - Not in the near future, but folks want to work on him
Sion - Boiling - This is still really early on but he's the Champion the team is most excited to work on.
Urgot - Room Temperature - Will happen but not short term
Poppy - Warm - Strong desire to do this from the team but is behind Sion in priority
Mantheon - Cold - Pretty low priority for a rework, his gameplay is in a decent spot and his theme is cool.
Kassadin - Hot (Though much smaller scope than a full rework - you guys have prob already seen these changes on PBE)
Udyr - True Ice Cold - Udyr is a boss, no plans for a rework
I'm still curious about Kayle. Does Morello's chainsaw still want blood?


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Kaellrus

Member

01-16-2014

To ask why we do reworks is to ask why leaves fall.

It is in their nature.

The real question is what is worth reworking.


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Fiora All Night

Senior Member

01-16-2014

I've come to accept that the Kat rework wasn't bad. I loved using Killer Instincts to shoot a bouncing blade clear down an advancing minion line to hit my opponent with the last bounce for full damage. With a pretty decent AD scaling on it too, and counting as single target on each hit for spellvamp so Gunblade could actually make up for her otherwise abysmal lane phase. Also Shunpo being a 320(.75AP) nuke was a lot of fun with resets. And her ult dealing even more damage than it does now - yes, even after the recent buff.

But 1 in 3 games I had to apologize to my team for being so useless because I didn't get any early kills and had terrible farming ability. And maybe her old Q + W was kinda broken if you were ahead and knew how to abuse it. So all-in-all her damage is still kinda decent, she can join the DFG-for-life club with Ahri, and being able to actually farm make it kinda worth it.

Karma I don't see myself forgiving you guys for. The kit lost it's thematic style, lost sight of her character (the lore change too honestly), and it just plain doesn't play the same at all. If you had kept the style of her play I could have been okay with it, but like people have been saying she went from someone who helped her teammates to a very aggressive mostly damage-dealing champ. Her name being "Karma" used to make sense with her kit...now it's just there.

I'm worried for Shaco honestly and I'd like it if you guys could do something...anything...to reassure me that he won't be deleted like Karma was.

I also sometimes wonder if you guys have any plans whatsoever for Fiora. Actually I mostly just wonder if you remember she exists, because most of the time it seems like you don't. And I'm still kinda thinking that Fiora is actually incredibly lucky to go unnoticed for so long...


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banthor11

Senior Member

01-16-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by FeralPony View Post
I'll answer in terms of team priorities to rework not release date since everything is always subject to change.

Zilean - Room Temperature - Not in the near future, but folks want to work on him
Sion - Boiling - This is still really early on but he's the Champion the team is most excited to work on.
Urgot - Room Temperature - Will happen but not short term
Poppy - Warm - Strong desire to do this from the team but is behind Sion in priority
Mantheon - Cold - Pretty low priority for a rework, his gameplay is in a decent spot and his theme is cool.
Kassadin - Hot (Though much smaller scope than a full rework - you guys have prob already seen these changes on PBE)
Udyr - True Ice Cold - Udyr is a boss, no plans for a rework
Although, its been said multiple times that Poppy would be getting worked on, that still makes me cringe to hear. I'm hoping Poppy preserves her wall-slamming assassinations gameplay, but I'm already anticipating a role change to something tanky and low burst (at best her new ultimate will lend some damage). It just feels weird given she's been a blast as a curve-ball support now. Unfortunate, given the gold changes, R'ing the support is no longer the guaranteed-no-damage-taken scenario it was originally.


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Talohmiir

Senior Member

01-16-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
I've personally picked up the Rengar rework from Scarizard and I'll get a new thread going with the updated changes soon.
All of my Dreams... right here! Soon we'll know more about the Rengar rework. Thanks Scruffy!


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AkuenOCe

Senior Member

01-16-2014

When are we going to hear from Scarizard about the Karma rework? The thread he requested for us to make is now 175 pages long and has been around for 4 months without a single comment from Scarizard (or any other Red for that matter) in it. It's rather rude to ask for our opinions and thoughts on how to make the champion mesh better with her original player base, only to completely ignore us. This is the thread in question: http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com....php?t=3822087


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Talohmiir

Senior Member

01-16-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by FeralPony View Post
I'll answer in terms of team priorities to rework not release date since everything is always subject to change.

Zilean - Room Temperature - Not in the near future, but folks want to work on him
Sion - Boiling - This is still really early on but he's the Champion the team is most excited to work on.
Urgot - Room Temperature - Will happen but not short term
Poppy - Warm - Strong desire to do this from the team but is behind Sion in priority
Mantheon - Cold - Pretty low priority for a rework, his gameplay is in a decent spot and his theme is cool.
Kassadin - Hot (Though much smaller scope than a full rework - you guys have prob already seen these changes on PBE)
Udyr - True Ice Cold - Udyr is a boss, no plans for a rework
Scruffy mentioned you MIGHT want to inform us on your Sion ideas and work, so he didn't spoil it. Can we have a tidbit to nibble on for the time being... anything.


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Rauron

Senior Member

01-16-2014

I think your philosophy and approach to reworks is awesome, and we've seen some GREAT results (Sivir and Yi come to mind).

So, what happened with Karma, and why was there never an official apology regarding Trundle losing the gross runt nature we were specifically told he'd keep?