Why do we do reworks?

First Riot Post
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Ailwuful2

Senior Member

01-16-2014

2 Dudes that I don't ever see mentioned by Riot, are Cho'gath and Mordekaiser acknowledged to need skill reworks? Slight tweaks to make them good maybe?


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FlutterShen

Senior Member

01-16-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
FeralPony is working on a really significant update to Sion and he wants to really deliver on Sion as the "monstrous undead warrior with a giant axe thing" that Sion could be. You should ask him for the details I wont spoil it.
Okay, so I've been meaning to ask this. Any word on Mordekaiser? He's been my favorite champ for a long while but he hasn't seen any skins in a dog's age and could really use some love from the poly-count fairy.

(specifically his GIANT rectangle feet, god those things became apparent when you upped his model size)


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Maximum Chogath

Senior Member

01-16-2014

So is Shen scheduled to be looked at for global ulti changes?


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Raptoreyes

Senior Member

01-16-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
We want assassins as a role to exist. Specifically these are high mobility champions with low defenses that try to opportunely get on to high priority enemy targets and take them out quickly. The main things that we generally think can define a healthy assassin are that

1. The enemy has some gameplay or opportunity to avoid the incoming assassin damage.
That is a difficult thing to program in. Most assassins are gods of 1v1 play so if you give them skill shots they will simply close to point blank range before releasing the hounds. Now if you made assassins have low enough burst AND high enough cooldowns THEN assassins could have a healthy role as a finisher class with high mobility but the ability to 1v1 squishes and severely maul tanks has to go.

Quote:
2. There is a long enough combat window for the enemy to react and try to escape before they die.
All the more reason to bring the amount of burst damage WAY WAY down as high damage always compresses reaction windows down below what mid tier players can handle. This is one of the main reasons league has a large player base of casuals and professionals seeking a large audience of stream revenue.

Compare that to DoTA and HoN which gives mid tier players insufficient time to deal with assassin attack runs. This is the reason LoL's competitors are dying out save for a tiny few hardcore fans with reaction times and connection ping well above the average gamer's ken.

Assassins tend to just be toxic because high damage and high mobility tend to lead to a toxic play experience on the receiving end.

Their may be a way to fix this but most assassin players would HATE this solution. Assassin's would become the "finisher class" unable to duel anything but the most squishy champs but featuring more mobility then they have now. Make no mistake that assassins as 1v1 gods they are now just makes the game feel terrible for all other roles. Like dedicated healers (Soraka) assassins must FEEL WEAK in order to be balanced.


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LoveSparkle

Senior Member

01-16-2014

Reworks are fine.

If Riot understands, and the community understands...

That a rework is code for: Champion Design and Live Balance messed up.

--

Protip: Revert the Eve changes and leave her alone.


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Ur 0s Pwn

Senior Member

01-16-2014

I saw shaco being talked about and got giddy ahaha and also keeping deceive could you make a thread detailing some other things about shaco rework by chance


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explosiveshadow

Member

01-16-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raptoreyes View Post
That is a difficult thing to program in. Most assassins are gods of 1v1 play so if you give them skill shots they will simply close to point blank range before releasing the hounds. Now if you made assassins have low enough burst AND high enough cooldowns THEN assassins could have a healthy role as a finisher class with high mobility but the ability to 1v1 squishes and severely maul tanks has to go.



All the more reason to bring the amount of burst damage WAY WAY down as high damage always compresses reaction windows down below what mid tier players can handle. This is one of the main reasons league has a large player base of casuals and professionals seeking a large audience of stream revenue.

Compare that to DoTA and HoN which gives mid tier players insufficient time to deal with assassin attack runs. This is the reason LoL's competitors are dying out save for a tiny few hardcore fans with reaction times and connection ping well above the average gamer's ken.

Assassins tend to just be toxic because high damage and high mobility tend to lead to a toxic play experience on the receiving end.

Their may be a way to fix this but most assassin players would HATE this solution. Assassin's would become the "finisher class" unable to duel anything but the most squishy champs but featuring more mobility then they have now. Make no mistake that assassins as 1v1 gods they are now just makes the game feel terrible for all other roles. Like dedicated healers (Soraka) assassins must FEEL WEAK in order to be balanced.
I as a player of Shaco (curious and scared for rework) and Noctourne. I disagree with you. Yes when played right assassins are powerful but, most either rely on their ults or have no AOE attacks take noctourne for the first one and shaco (boxes are weak without ap,take 2 hits and dissapear after 5 seconds of shooting aka balanced and used for escape) for the second. with a stactic shiv and hydra Shaco is strong. but anyone with a flash/silence/slow or any combo of them will negate most burst assassins. If they don't have that burst damage then they are like cookies (just feeding) for the enemy team or they are just another carry. Assassins jungle and therefore not available all the time. that is why the bush and jungle exist, for assassins. For the same reason that is why wards exist is to position yourself to negate ganks as you see the assassin coming. Most are bad at teamfights if foucused on witch is what happens most of the time if you have a good team. And most jungle items are nerfed now and even the jungle itself is nerfed. And they are already awesome cleanups (zeds passive, most have gap closers etc) And finally the best counter to an assassin is an assassin ever heard of counter jungling? This is where some of the fun playing against an assassin is. It's a large test to see who is the better duelist and jungler. (I apoligize in advance for grammar and spelling)


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FeralPony

Live Balance Designer

01-16-2014
13 of 25 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by peter1991 View Post
How hot (likely) are these characters for the next reworks?
...
I'll answer in terms of team priorities to rework not release date since everything is always subject to change.

Zilean - Room Temperature - Not in the near future, but folks want to work on him
Sion - Boiling - This is still really early on but he's the Champion the team is most excited to work on.
Urgot - Room Temperature - Will happen but not short term
Poppy - Warm - Strong desire to do this from the team but is behind Sion in priority
Mantheon - Cold - Pretty low priority for a rework, his gameplay is in a decent spot and his theme is cool.
Kassadin - Hot (Though much smaller scope than a full rework - you guys have prob already seen these changes on PBE)
Udyr - True Ice Cold - Udyr is a boss, no plans for a rework


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Ralik098

Senior Member

01-16-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by FeralPony View Post
I'll answer in terms of team priorities to rework not release date since everything is always subject to change.

Zilean - Room Temperature - Not in the near future, but folks want to work on him
Sion - Boiling - This is still really early on but he's the Champion the team is most excited to work on.
Urgot - Room Temperature - Will happen but not short term
Poppy - Warm - Strong desire to do this from the team but is behind Sion in priority
Mantheon - Cold - Pretty low priority for a rework, his gameplay is in a decent spot and his theme is cool.
Kassadin - Hot (Though much smaller scope than a full rework - you guys have prob already seen these changes on PBE)
Udyr - True Ice Cold - Udyr is a boss, no plans for a rework

Irelia
Akali
Gangplank
Darius?


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Kachomp

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Senior Member

01-16-2014

Can we just have a list of the champs that are slated for a rework and a list of champions that are actually actively being reworked?

Would be much easier IMO then everyone asking about specific champions.

TY!