Heimerdinger Viable?

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Renaito Yuujou

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Senior Member

01-15-2014

My 0% Heimer win rate says no.


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poporoporopoporo

Senior Member

01-15-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by 20thCenturyFaux View Post
but, mr bond, why would i go to the work of making that joke when my name can make your brain do that work for me?
so when is heimer being nerfed? he's completely immovable in lane without heavy team investment to push him out.


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Pro Anïvïa

Senior Member

01-15-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by 20thCenturyFaux View Post
Question time!

Which r do you think is most effective? least? why?

What do you think is the biggest difference between playing heimer in diamond 1 and playing him in more casual environments? Not so much general elo stuff, referring more to heimer-specific mechanics

Is there anything that just shuts you down at a basic level? Not necessarily champion picks, I'm referring more to strategies / coordination levels / etc.

Do your enemies focus your turrets? How long do your turrets survived when focused? Are they dying to incidental AE when not focused? And do people focus the RQ?

Thanks for reading! GIEV ME YAOUR HOMBERDONGLER DATA
Most effective R is probably the turret because its deeps are actually insane and it doesnt consume a cooldown other than upgrade itself.
Least effective is a tie between the other two since E is good for chasing/escaping multiple enemies and general lockdown but does not do very much damage and W is straight burst but requires a person to be disabled or moving in a straight line in order to hit. Both of these abilities also put their basic ability version on cooldown.

In lane it is hard to shut a properly played heimerdinger down, however its really not that difficult to not get destroyed by him. New rockets are extremely dodgeable, and his grenade has a rather low range especially considering the long travel time so mages with decent range will find it not that difficult to farm even if he has the turret triangle of doom set up. Late game he has a problem with people heavy in lockdown cc and gapclosers being able to bypass his turret death zone and stun his ass for 40 years COUGHLEONAISAPIECEOF****COUGH.

Focusing the turrets is a trap. Since i normally build 40% CDR on dingerman, focusing down a turret just means another one takes its place. Most enemies just attack me and either i die instantly, the turrets kill them, or the aoe kills my turrets without even trying which happens more frequently than i would like (goddamn talon ult). Nobody stands within a million miles of RQ unless they're 4 warmogs mundo because that thing ****s people up and they know it.


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DeathByWaffle

Senior Member

01-15-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by 20thCenturyFaux View Post
Question time!

Which r do you think is most effective? least? why?

What do you think is the biggest difference between playing heimer in diamond 1 and playing him in more casual environments? Not so much general elo stuff, referring more to heimer-specific mechanics

Is there anything that just shuts you down at a basic level? Not necessarily champion picks, I'm referring more to strategies / coordination levels / etc.

Do your enemies focus your turrets? How long do your turrets survived when focused? Are they dying to incidental AE when not focused? And do people focus the RQ?

Thanks for reading! GIEV ME YAOUR HOMBERDONGLER DATA
Personally, I think all of his R's are fantastic, and they each have their own specific niche.

RQ is the most reliable source of damage, and its slow and zone control abilities in a fight is excellent, especially since most people don't bother focusing the turrets in a team fight. It's not at all uncommon for me to use RQ and have it live even longer than I do in a team fight.

RW has the highest amount of burst damage, so if you need to quickly burst someone down, this is your spell.

RE has the most utility, and can potentially lock down the entire enemy team. Also, given that it has the greatest range (if you factor in the bounces) of all his spells, it's great for when you need to stop someone who is running away and is just outside of the range of your other spells.

At the basic level, it's more specific types of champions that shut heimer down rather than any specific strategy imo. This is because, assuming relatively equal skill level, Heimer can farm pretty safely against any champion that doesn't shut him down. Heck, it's pretty common for him in the hands of a good player to get easy double kills if the enemy jungler tries to gank. Turrets do a deceptively large amount of damage.

The types of champs that do really well against him, in my experience, are champions that can both all in and kill him really easily and destroy his turrets with ease. Against those kinds of champs, Heimer typically has to play extremely safe and passively, even losing out on a lot of CS if necessary in order to survive.

That being said, I don't think that's a bad thing at all. Heimer is a specific type of mage, one designed for great zone control, so it's only proper that he has his own weaknesses as well. And even his worst match ups aren't something he can't overcome through skill and teamwork.


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velvetfox

Member

01-15-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by 20thCenturyFaux View Post
Question time!

Which r do you think is most effective? least? why?

What do you think is the biggest difference between playing heimer in diamond 1 and playing him in more casual environments? Not so much general elo stuff, referring more to heimer-specific mechanics

Is there anything that just shuts you down at a basic level? Not necessarily champion picks, I'm referring more to strategies / coordination levels / etc.

Do your enemies focus your turrets? How long do your turrets survived when focused? Are they dying to incidental AE when not focused? And do people focus the RQ?

Thanks for reading! GIEV ME YAOUR HOMBERDONGLER DATA
I don't have nearly as many games as mystery1 does but i've been playing heimer at diamond and have a couple thoughts.

RQ - I've found myself using RQ about %90 of the time because that is where the most reliable damage can be found. The slow is an added utility bonus that further helps the heimer kite.

RW - I've tried this quite a few times but have almost completely given up on it. Only once have I landed this in lane and felt good about it and the only reason it worked is because my jungler (Vi) ulted the other mid. The damage is there but I feel that the reward often isn't worth the risk.

RE - Again I've only used this successfully a couple times. Once the enemy champion was escaping and the triple bounce aloud me to stun him and for my team to catch up. The other time was in enemy jungle and I hit 3 champs coming into drag area. I feel like here again the risk vs reward just isn't there. This is just me dreaming, but I would love to see RE just be one huge grenade; similar to a Ziggs ult would be awesome; obviously that would be over powered with a stun but a larger area with one grenade is more appealing to me than the triple bounce.

Just my opinion, thanks for reading
-velvetfox


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nifboy

Junior Member

01-15-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by 20thCenturyFaux View Post
Question time!
Too often when I realize I really want to throw out an RW or RE it's because I already W'd and E'd, and so all I can do is either RQ or run away until W or E is back up. Maybe it's just me being bad, but I seem to end a lot of fights with the R buff on.

And it's kind of annoying because RE seems like it ought to be the better panic button, but too often it's "Oh **** I missed E, should've RE'd".


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exec3

Senior Member

01-15-2014

I feel like Heimers turrets are a tad too squishy, they seem to go down with little effort on the enemies part and half the games I win I feel like it's because the enemy hasn't had the sense to take them down for whatever reason rather than me being awesome with Heimer. Focusing turrets is a good strategy but atm in lane it feels too easy to clear them. Orianna is the bane of my existence when playing Heimer.

With the ults I use RQ the most, it's just reliable and powerful and fun to watch. RW I use sometimes but it can be very difficult to land and the stun from grenade doesn't last long enough to combo them together in my experience. RE I very rarely use I just think it's reliable or useful, i'd rather let my Leona or someone else use their more reliable AoE CC than waste my ult on it. Usually to get a good RE I have to be on top of the enemy already, otherwise the range and slow speed of it means it often doesn't hit, not to mention the stun and slow feels underwhelming and there doesn't seem to be much of a satisfying followup move if I do land a good RE given the spell itself doesn't *feel* that satisfying or effective.


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Straekin

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Junior Member

01-15-2014

I find that going top instead of mid is better for my Donger play, i usually get matched up against either bruiser champs or burst AD champs, either way i push fast by taking 10%CD with runes and another 10% with masteries and push out the turrets and keep the wave pushed to their tower. Doing this usually keeps the enemy harrassed and low on health (because of turret's lasors) and tends to deny them some gold. Jungle usually comes to gank around lvl 3, and that isnt a problem as long as you hug your 3 turrets and keep a grenade and ignite ready, also ward the bush. I usually will get a kill or two when they come to gank the first time. I take the tower early and keep the lane pushed and play the pushing game. I still do well in teamfight as long as i have a decent tank, I honestly never have used the R-E, i almost always used R-Q, the upgraded turret is where it's at. R-W I use only when they are on my face or when they are CC'd. I almost always rush zonya's hourglass, kind of needed.


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mystery1

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Junior Member

01-15-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by 20thCenturyFaux View Post
Question time!

Which r do you think is most effective? least? why?

What do you think is the biggest difference between playing heimer in diamond 1 and playing him in more casual environments? Not so much general elo stuff, referring more to heimer-specific mechanics

Is there anything that just shuts you down at a basic level? Not necessarily champion picks, I'm referring more to strategies / coordination levels / etc.

Do your enemies focus your turrets? How long do your turrets survived when focused? Are they dying to incidental AE when not focused? And do people focus the RQ?

Thanks for reading! GIEV ME YAOUR HOMBERDONGLER DATA

Which ult I use depends on the situation, but the order that I use them would be:

RQ>RW>RE

RQ-> It is all about timing and the placement. Once you have that down, it is pretty much fool proof because you don't have to worry about hitting a skill shot. It also has the most damage output potential due to the splash damage and cannon burst. There are many uses for an effective RQ. An ideal scenario to use RQ in lane or in an engagement is when you find "Bruno Mars"(one who catches grenade), and just RQ right on him. The stun duration is long enough for the turret to hit the cannon burst for the OP damage. Other than the potential damage output, it can also be used to zone objectives. I mean, after you successful used RQ to prior, most people will be too scared to come close to the big turret.

RW-> I almost never use this during team fights anymore. I use this sometimes during laning phase if I am trying to snipe/kill my opponent who is hugging their tower with low hp. They are either trying to soak exp or trying to bait me for a gank. Therefore, it is risky to use it for this purpose. I rather save my ult for RQ defensively against a gank. I feel that I use RW more to steal buffs/dragons/baron than for fights.

RE-> It is a really good initiate/disengage. The element of surprise is what makes this skill shine, because people don't ever expect it coming unless you spammed it all game. The trade off is that after you use the skill, you pretty much don't have much to follow up with as far as damage. In yoloque, I probably only use this once in like 20 games for to earn the extra style points when I can flash+RE to kill a running enemy on the third bounce.


The biggest difference from Diamond 1 vs other settings is that the players in D1 have more experience with the mechanics of most champions, which includes Heimer due to his rework. Just like most champions, Heimer can dominate anyone who does not know anything about his mechanics. In a nutshell, you have to think like a ninja and be 2 steps ahead in order to do well in D1.

My own teammates tend to shut me down more than the enemy team. Forcing me to rotate pre-6 in order to help my jungler invade/defend tend to screw me over the most. Especially if I die trying to help, it just sets me back and eliminates all my lane pressure. Mid to late game, some people don't understand Heimers potential to siege and take objectives. Thus, games tend to drag out for no reason, which allows people to make more mistakes.

I feel like Heimerdinger has the strongest global taunt in the game. Yes, stronger than Teemo's. I expect to be focused all the time, no matter what. Thus, I usually put down as many turrets as I can as I am already taking damage. The longer I can kite/stay alive, the longer my turrets can shoot. Otherwise, turrets get 1 shotted alot. They need make it to scale with Heimers hp/mr/def or just make it like wards or Zyra's plants. Smart junglers will save smite for RQ. Elise usually 1 shot my RQ, please nerf. =P

Hope this is what you wanted.


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Great Pyrenees

Senior Member

01-15-2014

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Originally Posted by mystery1 View Post

I also main heimer though I am a lowly bronze.
Mystery1 will you friend me so I can watch you and learn please?

Pyrenees or Great Pyrenees