@ Morello - A plat 1 Soraka player wants to speak.

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Morello

Lead Designer

01-15-2014
7 of 15 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xyrne View Post
I've been disliking it ever since they decided it was a good idea to go and **** all over supports and specifically the healers. And the way they deliberately try to drive players away from playing certain champions is pathetic.
**** all over supports? You're joking, right?

Look, I was OK tanking the "Riot hates supports" even if it's flat-out insane-talk before we fixed their underlying issues. Dedicated healers (maybe more specifically, "pacifist" dedicated healers) aren't something we'll see in League for the reasons I've mentioned a lot of times. Supports are awesome characters that we like to have in League.

Again;

* Support characters are awesome ways to add teamwork and help friends.
* Annie being overpowered is a balance issue and not indicative of the design intent behind changes, and I'm pretty sure that's very obvious to any reasonable person.
* Healing and sustain mechanics in and of themselves aren't an issue (but like any mechanic can have problematic results). Their results are not related to the dedicated healer discussion (Vlad is a problem, but for somewhat different reasons).
* Dedicated healers that match a priest/medic/healer model are not appropriate for team-based PvP. and there are still zero compelling counter-arguments to the reasoning on this.
* Soraka suffers from the exact above problem because when she's balanced, it has the exact effect we talk about. When she doesn't have that problem, she's weak and unsatisfying.

The OP here is trying to present a case for moving her a new direction because he loves Soraka. It's noble and something long-overdue.


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SexualHarrasadar

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Senior Member

01-15-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
**** all over supports? You're joking, right?

Look, I was OK tanking the "Riot hates supports" even if it's flat-out insane-talk before we fixed their underlying issues. Dedicated healers (maybe more specifically, "pacifist" dedicated healers) aren't something we'll see in League for the reasons I've mentioned a lot of times. Supports are awesome characters that we like to have in League.

Again;

* Support characters are awesome ways to add teamwork and help friends.
* Annie being overpowered is a balance issue and not indicative of the design intent behind changes, and I'm pretty sure that's very obvious to any reasonable person.
* Healing and sustain mechanics in and of themselves aren't an issue (but like any mechanic can have problematic results). Their results are not related to the dedicated healer discussion (Vlad is a problem, but for somewhat different reasons).
* Dedicated healers that match a priest/medic/healer model are not appropriate for team-based PvP. and there are still zero compelling counter-arguments to the reasoning on this.
* Soraka suffers from the exact above problem because when she's balanced, it has the exact effect we talk about. When she doesn't have that problem, she's weak and unsatisfying.

The OP here is trying to present a case for moving her a new direction because he loves Soraka. It's noble and something long-overdue.
What are your thoughts on Nidalee's heal? At this point in time it's more potent than Soraka's, on half the CD, and due to Nidalee's playstyle encourages even less interaction with the opponent than Soraka does, as Soraka needs to subject herself to combat to make the most use of her kit now while Nidale's primary playstyle is sit back, chuck spears, and pounce away from any dangers.

One could argue that Nidalee's heal is even worse from a design standpoint than Soraka at this point. Though you trade out the sizable armor buff for a moderate AS increase that isn't exactly the most appreciated thing.


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OMG halp meh plz

Senior Member

01-15-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
**** all over supports? You're joking, right?

Look, I was OK tanking the "Riot hates supports" even if it's flat-out insane-talk before we fixed their underlying issues. Dedicated healers (maybe more specifically, "pacifist" dedicated healers) aren't something we'll see in League for the reasons I've mentioned a lot of times. Supports are awesome characters that we like to have in League.

Again;

* Support characters are awesome ways to add teamwork and help friends.
* Annie being overpowered is a balance issue and not indicative of the design intent behind changes, and I'm pretty sure that's very obvious to any reasonable person.


The OP here is trying to present a case for moving her a new direction because he loves Soraka. It's noble and something long-overdue.
Annie wasn't a problem until you nerfed traditional support bases AND ratios. You seem to have forgotten that you guys did this. Oddly enough, tank support bases and ratios were not affected, and they enjoy massive success.

Therefore, Riot hates supports.

Also I'm pretty sure its futile to give Soraka suggestions since you guys will ignore it all and do your own thing anyway; I assume its a "Riot is alpha male" thing.


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Morello

Lead Designer

01-15-2014
8 of 15 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by siegfriedx1 View Post
*Snip*
Thanks for your patience on a response! Let me go through the specific issues you list:

Problem 1: Starcall is a cool skill, but pushes the lane so much you can't use it.

True - a good avenue of attack to help this skill out. While I'm not sure the channel thing isn't really clunky (especially on a PBAOE and stack skill on a non-tank character), the idea that it has a champion-only effect, with a minion effect if the player wants it has a lot of merit.

The damage amp is a bit of an issue, because damage amps math out in a crazier way than -resists. I do think making it something her lane mate can use (both resists, or something) makes sense if we keep Starcall.

Suggestion for W: it should be used for big saves. Make it more timing-based.

Agreed. I think the passive should be tuned here too (as the lower the target, the more the "bait" and turn should be). I especially prefer this kicks in late-game as effects like this can decimate a lane, and this can handle some of the natural scaling (scales with team gold overall) to get her into teamfights.

I still think Soraka needs more work than that, but these could be decent pieces or hold-overs if available. I'll ask the team what they think.


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Morello

Lead Designer

01-15-2014
9 of 15 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by OMG halp meh plz View Post
Annie wasn't a problem until you nerfed traditional support bases AND ratios. You seem to have forgotten that you guys did this. Oddly enough, tank support bases and ratios were not affected, and they enjoy massive success.

Therefore, Riot hates supports.

Also I'm pretty sure its futile to give Soraka suggestions since you guys will ignore it all and do your own thing anyway; I assume its a "Riot is alpha male" thing.
Mages were undertuned a few patches after Season 3 due to assassin itemization. Assassins enjoyed massive success.

Therefore Riot hates mages.

There's a huge difference between "current state of numbers" and "intent." Additionally, the gold stream items are not working properly, and we're redoing them before we touch the tuning balance (since the items directly relate). This is coming out as soon as we get it done, which I believe is ASAP.

Now, this may be an issue of us not mentioning this stuff -I've been away from the forums for a bit.


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Rubidium

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Senior Member

01-15-2014

morello
u r fat


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Morello

Lead Designer

01-15-2014
10 of 15 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by SexualHarrasadar View Post
What are your thoughts on Nidalee's heal? At this point in time it's more potent than Soraka's, on half the CD, and due to Nidalee's playstyle encourages even less interaction with the opponent than Soraka does, as Soraka needs to subject herself to combat to make the most use of her kit now while Nidale's primary playstyle is sit back, chuck spears, and pounce away from any dangers.

One could argue that Nidalee's heal is even worse from a design standpoint than Soraka at this point. Though you trade out the sizable armor buff for a moderate AS increase that isn't exactly the most appreciated thing.
My Nidalee example is likely bad - I copypasta'd that piece from long ago when that wasn't the case. I should edit that because you're right...that's not a good example anymore either.


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Morello

Lead Designer

01-15-2014
11 of 15 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubidium View Post
morello
u r fat
I prefer
swoll


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Trumanator

Senior Member

01-15-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
My Nidalee example is likely bad - I copypasta'd that piece from long ago when that wasn't the case. I should edit that because you're right...that's not a good example anymore either.
Nidalee nerfs confirmed.




J/K, I know thats not necessarily what you meant.


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Auryiel

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Member

01-15-2014

I really don't want to hijack this thread, I just hope you'll read this comment : you said weeks ago you'd comment on Morde but never did

Please fix this sooner than later. With this champ it's just... utter silence...