Ziggs nerfs

First Riot Post
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kirby145x

Senior Member

01-12-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by AttilatheStun View Post
Ziggs is only really frustrating if you don't have the mobility to get around his bombs. A good Kass or Fizz can hit him pretty hard.
Kass or Fizz

Fight op champions with op champions


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LeoHark

Senior Member

01-13-2014

please don't drop Ziggs off the chart of good champ riot don't do to him what you did to the likes of Daina, Twisted faith, Fiddle Stick, and much more.

He barely got a break after the balances he got (( I feel Ahri got overnerfed to be honest)) and now his threatened with a nerf gun to his head. I know you must protect your game so no champ break it like Rengar (( his my favorite champ but I do understand why he got nerfed, people may leave the game because it was the league of Rengar before his nerf)) but Ziggs is ok as he is.

if a nerf must hit him don't make it saver. His a skill shot champ and a VERY squishy one ((for good reasons)).

No one plays TF like before because he got over nerfed. Daina is not as good as before, and poor Ahri even if I don't play her and I get killed by her she was a skilled base champ.

I hate to see Ziggs Join the list. Please his the only one from my favorite champ that can be played comparatively against a very hard already strong champs(( Yasuo, Fizz...)).


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YourBIsDifferent

Junior Member

01-13-2014

pls don't nert ziggs

First, not many people using ziggs well. His clean wave power is not as strong as gragas, so why nert him?
Second, Q and E is hard to hit the target! if u guys lower down the ratio U GUYS ARE LOWER DOWN HIS POWER IN TEAMFIGHT
Third, please fix other champs before fixing HOT CHAMP!! there are thousands of champs waiting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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Get Swoll Son

Senior Member

01-14-2014

Any chance of you discussing the points raised in some of the later posts (including mine), Meddler?


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Meddler

Lead Champion Designer

01-14-2014
2 of 2 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbluefoot View Post
Any chance of you discussing the points raised in some of the later posts (including mine), Meddler?
We'll be testing some alternate versions over the next week or so, starting with having the mines deal reduced damage to minions again on subsequent hits and raising the Q mana cost at low ranks instead of the Q/E ratio nerfs. That may clash a bit with the niche we'd been aiming for for Ziggs of strong siege/counter siege, we'd like to test whether the other recent changes (Q cast style, mine explosion radius, ult damage to minions) were enough to support that by themselves however. If so removing some of the farming power the E offers at present might be a good way to bring him in line. It's possible that the amount of damage a fed Ziggs currently deals, relative to a poorly performing Ziggs, may be appropriate if there's a bit more of a challenge to get that farmed in the first place.

As with my earlier post this stuff's still subject to change as we keep testing. The previous changes, or something different again, might prove to be the best way of accomplishing our goals r.e. bringing Ziggs' down a bit.


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Rubidium

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Senior Member

01-14-2014

Attachment 878043


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Rubidium

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Senior Member

01-14-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meddler View Post
We'll be testing some alternate versions over the next week or so, starting with having the mines deal reduced damage to minions again on subsequent hits and raising the Q mana cost at low ranks instead of the Q/E ratio nerfs. That may clash a bit with the niche we'd been aiming for for Ziggs of strong siege/counter siege, we'd like to test whether the other recent changes (Q cast style, mine explosion radius, ult damage to minions) were enough to support that by themselves however. If so removing some of the farming power the E offers at present might be a good way to bring him in line. It's possible that the amount of damage a fed Ziggs currently deals, relative to a poorly performing Ziggs, may be appropriate if there's a bit more of a challenge to get that farmed in the first place.

As with my earlier post this stuff's still subject to change as we keep testing. The previous changes, or something different again, might prove to be the best way of accomplishing our goals r.e. bringing Ziggs' down a bit.
tl;dr
massive wall of text


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Rubidium

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Senior Member

01-15-2014

bump


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Majin Bl3u

Senior Member

01-15-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meddler View Post
We're currently looking at a couple of cases where Ziggs can be problematic:

1. As a early lane bully.
2. Mid to late game when poking and well fed/farmed

Solutions we're looking at right now are:

1. Reducing his passive damage, base and ratio, at levels 2-6 ish especially, scaling back up to the same values by level 18, to reduce his lane bully presence against a lot of mids.
2. Reducing his Q/E AP ratios a bit, while leaving the bases as is, so a well fed Ziggs doesn't chunk targets quite so much harder than an average Ziggs.

No guarantees that's what we'll opt for yet, there are a couple of other options we've discussed too, such as making it so his mines deal reduced damage on subsequent hits to minions again for example. That would have the benefit of bringing his farming potential down a bit, which may simply be too high at the moment, would have the trade off though of weakening his siege/counter siege niche as well.

We're looking to get some changes into the balance patch after the next one (the next's locked down at this point).
I agree with all the potential area's you listed except a nerf to his ratios. I believe his late game damage SEEMS high only because he generally tends to be ahead (item wise) due to his godly farming and the fact that he bullies the other mid laner reducing their farm. Once the other team catches up his damage isn't really anything special .It's good, don't get me wrong, but he is at the end of the day a poke mage. His real terror late game is the satchel charge's positioning util where he can knock an enemy out of position so that his team can swarm them.

I feel like reducing his ratio's will tilt him to being too weak late game, effectively making his design as a poke mage pointless.


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IS1496b8f95ed58e3cab95c

Member

01-15-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meddler View Post
We're currently looking at a couple of cases where Ziggs can be problematic:

1. As a early lane bully.
2. Mid to late game when poking and well fed/farmed

Solutions we're looking at right now are:

1. Reducing his passive damage, base and ratio, at levels 2-6 ish especially, scaling back up to the same values by level 18, to reduce his lane bully presence against a lot of mids.
2. Reducing his Q/E AP ratios a bit, while leaving the bases as is, so a well fed Ziggs doesn't chunk targets quite so much harder than an average Ziggs.

No guarantees that's what we'll opt for yet, there are a couple of other options we've discussed too, such as making it so his mines deal reduced damage on subsequent hits to minions again for example. That would have the benefit of bringing his farming potential down a bit, which may simply be too high at the moment, would have the trade off though of weakening his siege/counter siege niche as well.

We're looking to get some changes into the balance patch after the next one (the next's locked down at this point).
Please tell me you are considering the fact that he was considered unviable, and then his damage to minions got buffed and suddenly he is FotM. I really dislike how riot buffs a champion, the community decides, hey the is awesome, and suddenly he gets nerfed down to a state that he is worse than before.

I agree the E needs the reduced damage to minions re-added, it is impossible to siege against him. The R change was a great idea and shouldn't be reverted. I'd rather you don't nerf the Q because its his main source of trading/damage and was never OP before other factors of his kit got buffed.

If you do nerf the Q, Can you buff the ratio on W to compensate? Currently it only feels like an knock around spell. It would be nice if it dealt some damage.