Ziggs nerfs

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Pvt Poncho

Member

01-10-2014

So I know that nerfs are incoming, but does anyone know to what extent? I love ziggs and I've been playing him all of season 3 and much of season 2 even before he was buffed. My greatest fear is that riot will nerf him passed where he was pre buff. I honestly would be all in favor for just reverting him back to his previous state. What do you guys think? I really don't want to see my favorite champ nerfed into oblivion...


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stealthfox94

Senior Member

01-10-2014

Think its to his minefield thing but idk for sure.


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doubleguac

Senior Member

01-10-2014

I doubt he'll be nerfed into oblivion. Ziggs is overtuned right now, but his kit is in no way inherently frustrating or toxic. He's also incredibly easy to fix: just hit his damage a bit.

If you look at the champions who get totally demolished by nerfs, they tend to be either low-tier terrors (akali and darius) who punish small mistakes really hard, or champions whose kits lack dynamic counterplay (olaf, pre-rework eve, poppy).

He's definitely too strong, but there isn't nearly as much hate for him on these forums as for champs like riven and nasus. He's not face-rolly enough to drum up the frustration that usually results in Riot obliterating a champion.


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Gd Bot

Senior Member

01-10-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by doubleguac View Post
I doubt he'll be nerfed into oblivion. Ziggs is overtuned right now, but his kit is in no way inherently frustrating or toxic. He's also incredibly easy to fix: just hit his damage a bit.

If you look at the champions who get totally demolished by nerfs, they tend to be either low-tier terrors (akali and darius) who punish small mistakes really hard, or champions whose kits lack dynamic counterplay (olaf, pre-rework eve, poppy).

He's definitely too strong, but there isn't nearly as much hate for him on these forums as for champs like riven and nasus. He's not face-rolly enough to drum up the frustration that usually results in Riot obliterating a champion.
harass on a 2 second cd
lichbane+passive
escape
slow

how is this not frustrating to lane against


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Yago Xiten

Senior Member

01-10-2014

Ziggs' kit is honestly borderline toxic.

The amount of disengage, peel, poke and melee punish the guy has, along with his damage output can be extremely difficult to deal with.

Usually he can devastate your team in the time it takes to get to him.


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AttilatheStun

Senior Member

01-10-2014

Ziggs is only really frustrating if you don't have the mobility to get around his bombs. A good Kass or Fizz can hit him pretty hard.


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stealthfox94

Senior Member

01-10-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gd Bot View Post
harass on a 2 second cd
lichbane+passive
escape
slow

how is this not frustrating to lane against
Seriously dude there's much worse stuff out there.


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doubleguac

Senior Member

01-10-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gd Bot View Post
harass on a 2 second cd
lichbane+passive
escape
slow

how is this not frustrating to lane against
His harass is dodgeable. During the early laning period he will OOM extremely fast if he spams it.

His passive puts him in short range of his opponent.

His escape is extremely reasonable. This isn't kass or kat or gragas we're talking about. Not only is it on a pretty high cd, it also comes out slowly, and displacing him while he uses it completely ****s it up.

His slow is pretty low range and very predictable.

I'm not saying ziggs isn't frustrating to play against right now. But he's frustrating to lane against right now because his numbers are overtuned, not because his kit is inherently toxic. He's no more inherently toxic in lane than someone like lux, who can also harass consistently and from a long range.


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Meddler

Lead Champion Designer

01-11-2014
1 of 2 Riot Posts

We're currently looking at a couple of cases where Ziggs can be problematic:

1. As a early lane bully.
2. Mid to late game when poking and well fed/farmed

Solutions we're looking at right now are:

1. Reducing his passive damage, base and ratio, at levels 2-6 ish especially, scaling back up to the same values by level 18, to reduce his lane bully presence against a lot of mids.
2. Reducing his Q/E AP ratios a bit, while leaving the bases as is, so a well fed Ziggs doesn't chunk targets quite so much harder than an average Ziggs.

No guarantees that's what we'll opt for yet, there are a couple of other options we've discussed too, such as making it so his mines deal reduced damage on subsequent hits to minions again for example. That would have the benefit of bringing his farming potential down a bit, which may simply be too high at the moment, would have the trade off though of weakening his siege/counter siege niche as well.

We're looking to get some changes into the balance patch after the next one (the next's locked down at this point).


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DM DunkMaster

Senior Member

01-11-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meddler View Post
We're currently looking at a couple of cases where Ziggs can be problematic:

1. As a early lane bully.
2. Mid to late game when poking and well fed/farmed

Solutions we're looking at right now are:

1. Reducing his passive damage, base and ratio, at levels 2-6 ish especially, scaling back up to the same values by level 18, to reduce his lane bully presence against a lot of mids.
2. Reducing his Q/E AP ratios a bit, while leaving the bases as is, so a well fed Ziggs doesn't chunk targets quite so much harder than an average Ziggs.

No guarantees that's what we'll opt for yet, there are a couple of other options we've discussed too, such as making it so his mines deal reduced damage on subsequent hits to minions again for example. That would have the benefit of bringing his farming potential down a bit, which may simply be too high at the moment, would have the trade off though of weakening his siege/counter siege niche as well.

We're looking to get some changes into the balance patch after the next one (the next's locked down at this point).
3 Monthes ago, no one played Ziggs because he was weak. Then you guys IMPROVED HIS WAVECLEAR, and everyone started crying OP.. How about you fix Gragas first instead of sheeping yourselves to the communities "nerf train" habits.


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