More S4 changes?

First Riot Post
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Pullution15

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

01-10-2014

Meddler, I just want to say thank you for taking the time to respond to questions from GD like this. You rock!


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Mallian

Junior Member

01-10-2014

Meddler, this could only possibly be my 3rd time in the forumns, but I have come for a really interesting thought? You say you may not be the best to talk to about top lane, but you do play the game, after riven and shyv are gone, MUNDO, JAX, TEEMO, SINGED, and KAYLE and that will be it.. you must see this? any thoughts?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

The MechE

Senior Member

01-10-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by I am Trynda View Post
Percent effective health is the vertical-- Effective health is literally the amount of damage you can withstand before dying, and isn't equal to your in game health (unless you have 0 resists). The Vertical is just the percent of that which is lost due to the effects of the penetration. The incoming damage is assumed to be entirely physical and lethal from 100 to 0.

The horizontal is the amount of armor you have.
What would target tanks specifically then? % hp is amazing against squishies as well I hear. It kills everyone.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Super Explosion

Senior Member

01-10-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by I am Trynda View Post
I just feel like there isn't enough itemization available to specifically target tanks, at the cost of doing much less damage to squishies.
The whole point of a tank is to form the core protective entity for less tanky teammates.

If an item could more easily kill tanks, it would most likely invalidate the existence of tanks completely, and make building tanky feel very bad.

That would perhaps homogenize the game into everyone having the same net health, relative to binary pairings of reciprocal counters, and players feeling helpless if they didn't have a specific counter-item.

Tankiness isn't the problem. Tanky Damage can be a problem.

But tanky damage in League largely only exists to counter ranged hyperdamage.

Without ranged hyperdamage, tanky dps could be toned down in favor of more choice between tankiness or damage, for each champion, depending on game environment and team usefulness.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Meddler

Lead Champion Designer

01-10-2014
30 of 48 Riot Posts

Thanks for the discussion all, I've got to head off (it's late and tomorrow's a work day). Apologies to those whose posts I skipped or didn't get to, lot of good posts there and just not enough hours in the day.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Mandaari

Senior Member

01-10-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meddler View Post
Thanks for the discussion all, I've got to head off (it's late and tomorrow's a work day). Apologies to those whose posts I skipped or didn't get to, lot of good posts there and just not enough hours in the day.
Are you going to continue tomorrow? It's nice to see a red on now that winter break's over. It'd also be a shame for that essay I wrote to go unresponded to =\


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Hellioning

Senior Member

01-10-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meddler View Post
Thanks for the discussion all, I've got to head off (it's late and tomorrow's a work day). Apologies to those whose posts I skipped or didn't get to, lot of good posts there and just not enough hours in the day.
I can never show up early enough for these things. Bleh. Can you at least check this thread out tomorrow? I seriously have questions I want to know the answer to.

I mean, I've been asking them for a while, but apparently I'm not asking them nicely enough, given they're never responded to.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

PrinceKO

Senior Member

01-10-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meddler View Post
R.e. the concerns you raise at the end of that post:

"Why does Ashe, who has no steroid, only 1 AD ratio, and no on-hit damage, have terrible AD?"

First thing here: Is Ashe's damage too low? Certainly, her damage output overall is low for an ADC. She does bring more utility than any other however so that's appropriate. If, for argument's sake, her damage output is too low bearing that in mind, is base stats the place to give her more damage or would spell rank ups or ratios be a better choice? Ratios give more effect from items purchased, spell rank ups offer power in a discrete moment that's both easier to appreciate and generally offers more opportunities for gameplay/expression of skill. Overall we feel her power's in a pretty good spot at the moment, so if we did want to add damage that would involve looking elsewhere on the kit to compensate for that added power.

"Why does Ashe, who's the only ADC with no mobility at 325 MS and who's being outclassed in range more and more, have 325 MS when more and more champs get released with gap closers?"

Here I'd have to disagree that Ashe is getting outclassed in range more and more. From beta onwards she's been one of the highest auto attack range champions, but not the highest, with strong poke, with decent but not the longest range, with a light CC attached that's easy to hit with plus a global hard CC ult. Her lack of mobility and movement speed reflects the amount of utility she brings and that she can contribute meaningfully from a fair distance, without being especially item dependent.

Certainly, Ashe does suffer, if not peeled for, against champions with strong engage (bruisers/assassins especially), so she's not a pick all the time champion. She's also not a good choice if you need a high damage ADC. She brings a distinct set of skills, is a favored pick by some competitive teams but not all, goes well with some team comps but not all, and moves in and out of favor somewhat based off which other champions are currently popular. On those grounds I'd argue she's actually a fairly good example of how a champion should be to give an interesting and diverse champion pool. I can't speak with any expertise as to her exact stats/power at present, the live balance guys are much more informed on that side of things than I am, I do feel her core design's reasonably solid however (though permaslow does create a few fighter health issues).

You mention you feel her kit has some serious fundamental issues beyond just numbers in your linked post. Is there anything particular in that line you'd like to discuss?
Her kit is just simply outdated and therefore is being outclassed by newer ADCs such as Lucian, Jinx, and Sivir who was recently reworked. Ashe is in dire need of a new Q and E and an actual AD ratio on W. Also, tanks right now are the meta, and Ashe simply has no defense against this since she deals less damage than Jinx and is less mobile than Lucian or Sivir.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

The MechE

Senior Member

01-10-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellioning View Post
I can never show up early enough for these things. Bleh. Can you at least check this thread out tomorrow? I seriously have questions I want to know the answer to.

I mean, I've been asking them for a while, but apparently I'm not asking them nicely enough, given they're never responded to.
It's also very hard to answer everyone's question. I don't think Meddler has a grudge against you or something silly like that. Plus, there are lots of things he just might not know or doesn't have enough information yet to talk about.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Xelnath

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Systems Designer

01-10-2014
31 of 48 Riot Posts

You did a good job in this thread, Meddler.

I'm a little sad it's premature to start hinting at the next champ. I've been eyeballing some amazing puns for when the time is right. Since you guys will read way too much into everything I say, I'll try to remember that silence is golden and all of the cake in this post is a lie.