A Wild Knifecat Appears! (Rengar Discussion)

First Riot Post
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TB Once

Senior Member

12-10-2013

I feel that Rengar's gameplay only satisfies the assassin, hunter fantasy during times when his ult is available. Specifically, as a jungler, ganks pre level 6 are underwhelming, as well as his ability to chase targets down, both because he lacks the ability to close the distance on his targets unless they woefully venture too close to a brush. Now that his E is being rebalanced as a skill shot, I think these issues could be best addressed by giving Rengar the ability to leap onto a target after he lands bolo. I think this would add an interesting combo mechanic into his skill set while coinciding well into his predatory lore.

Likewise, the armor and MR buff from Battle Roar feels out of place for his aggression based playstyle, and creates confusion as to how he's intended to be played. I think a small shield, similar to Vi or Yasuo's would fit more conceptually into his kit than a defensive steroid does, encouraging players to build to engage in quick skirmishes, rather than itemize as yet another tanky bruiser.


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Draco32163

Junior Member

12-10-2013

I main Kha'Zix. Im happy.


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Furi Kuri

Member

12-10-2013

Like he ****s up every champ he touches. Zed, Karma, Rengo, etc.


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Insanities Eye

Junior Member

12-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parapsychology View Post
It sounds to me like riot wants to make BTN's lackluster rework sounds appetizing (Bounter Hunter Passive).

Is this REALLY what we want? More gold income? Does this truly address the major underlying issues surrounding Rengar? This passive will only further increase the gap between skilled/not so skilled Rengars out there.

This passive only works if you are doing well. Say a lane Rengar is falling behind his opponent. How does this passive help at all? He gets some extra gold off kills and assists.. but top lane rarely has more than 1 champion at top, with occasional ganks from jungler/mid. The isolated Rengar at top lane doesn't benefit at all from this passive if he's behind. Only snowball rengar's benefit. So riot, to answer the qestion. No. I think this is a terrible excuse to just kick the can down the road. Nothing is addressed if all you are doing is shoving more gold revenue down our throats but not changing any numbers.
I ran into this problem when I began playing rengar, there are 2 ways out of it, you build bruiser, or roam to bot or mid and use your ult to help kill the laner, then rush back top or go buy, no use in getting zoned out of lane, that is what people always forget to do as Rengar, it just takes some practice is all


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MasterWaheed

Senior Member

12-10-2013

Wait why are you forcing Rengar into the jungle? What about top lane?


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MasterWaheed

Senior Member

12-10-2013

This really sounds bad…Riot is forcing Rengar into the jungle(not saying its bad) and not letting him show his true hunting prowess in the top lane. I am really sad. Rengar was my first and favorite champion in this game.


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Talohmiir

Senior Member

12-10-2013

I think he'll still be viable in Top, his BTN now is good if you get ahead early and is gold efficient around 8th lvl without any stacks on it whatsoever. His Top Lane/Junler play should not revolve around one item. I would like to see it viable top lane without having to worry about the Bounty Hunter, but I still like the idea. A great way to get ahead is to roam when your enemy champ goes back to buy, or after you kill and clear a wave. After that, roam to mid, or invade enemy jungle with your jungler, or if you have time late-game, roam to bot. Picking up those kills or assists would help with that Bounty Hunter passive.


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NA Darklarik

Senior Member

12-11-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
Dear Friends (and other internet denizens)

With Preseason out of the way, we totally playtested Rengar today (exactly as described in the OP). For the Quick Breakdown:

12/3/24 - 21/9/0 - Jungle - Bonetooth Necklace (14 Stacks), Mercury Treads, Trinity Force, Randuin's Omen, Spirit Visage, Ravenous Hydra.

Firing up the Knifecat Machine and looking to get this off the ground now that i (and not to mention my team) have more bandwidth overall. Been reading over a lot of your concerns - i don't think Brush removal is actually that big a hit to Rengar (totally anecdotal, but haven't seen it impact his performance significantly on Live or Internally), but i do agree that my vision of BTN as a Jungle Item likely needs to be revised with the Preseason Changes.

SO. My Big Question: How would y'all feel about Bounty Hunter on BTN as it's Gold Generation passive?
Horrible.
I dont care if its thematically fitting.
That passive absolutely sucked in every conceivable way. Having a unreliable and very UNDERWHELING passive on an already semi-unreliable and nerfed item isnt going to make it more attractive.

Conservation is the passive that works, and the only one i care to have. Since it builds over time, you can clear a camp, then go gank a lane without loosing potential gold revenue, since it caps at 80, you have almost 2 minutes to gank a lane without loosing on potential stacks, thats reliable, and it opens windows to gank lanes.

Have bonetooth built out of 800 gold, but then have some type of NEW item that builds out of bonetooth and some AD (Or boots, to make it interesting, specially since your focusing on utility anyway) that equals a total of 2000 gold, and is on par with the rest of the spirit line.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterWaheed View Post
This really sounds bad…Riot is forcing Rengar into the jungle(not saying its bad) and not letting him show his true hunting prowess in the top lane. I am really sad. Rengar was my first and favorite champion in this game.
Did you not read his new Q train ability? I think hes going to be much more formidable top lane now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oncewasblind View Post
I feel that Rengar's gameplay only satisfies the assassin, hunter fantasy during times when his ult is available. Specifically, as a jungler, ganks pre level 6 are underwhelming, as well as his ability to chase targets down, both because he lacks the ability to close the distance on his targets unless they woefully venture too close to a brush. Now that his E is being rebalanced as a skill shot, I think these issues could be best addressed by giving Rengar the ability to leap onto a target after he lands bolo. I think this would add an interesting combo mechanic into his skill set while coinciding well into his predatory lore.

Likewise, the armor and MR buff from Battle Roar feels out of place for his aggression based playstyle, and creates confusion as to how he's intended to be played. I think a small shield, similar to Vi or Yasuo's would fit more conceptually into his kit than a defensive steroid does, encouraging players to build to engage in quick skirmishes, rather than itemize as yet another tanky bruiser.
Increasing the range at which he can leap from a bush if he lands bola, or allowing him to proc his passive on struck bola targets i belive is an absolutely ****ingg AWSOMEEEEE idea. Although, im not sure if it will be op.

With this new set up, rengar can go into lane, Emp Q, Q, E, then Emp E, his ganks will be a lot stronger and more damaging since he can activate 2 emp abilities during a gank. Its still an awsome idea.


Totally agree on the W thing, i much liked the older version Scarizard was trying out, where it reduced the enemys attack damage, like Tryndamere W, wish to god they would re-implement that, at least for solo laners only. Or make it so that if the roar hits neutal monsters, rengar gains some Arm (or reduced damage from neutral monsters), while if he hits a champion, he lowers there AD.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyrgos View Post
Have a laning BTN & a jungling BTN.
COOOOOOOOOOOOOOL


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Grey Verve

Member

12-11-2013

Bounty Hunter on BTN?

That's better than nothing, turning BTN into another variation of Spirit of the Elder Lizard.

I'd like BTN to have a variation of bounty hunter that would give more benefit for scoring kills/assists to champions of equal or higher level (ie. champions that is stronger than Rengar himself) to reflect some of Rengar's lore and beliefs into his exclusive item.


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Scarizard

Live Balance Designer

12-11-2013
81 of 81 Riot Posts

Just a heads up - gonna be focused on making tweaks that jive with preseason (especially on BTN) and likely making a new thread cause this one's suuuuper long already. You can expect a more updated/centralized discussion next week, along with our thoughts on where he's headed and what we can do to get things closer.

I'll be the first to admit that some of you are right in what you've identified feels kind of 'meh' on the kit posted - R mechanic has been testing well, but has a lot of feedback/satisfaction issues to players unfamiliar with it. Increasing clarity here and really pushing it to be the most awesome Rengar ult it can be is top priority for me.

Be on the lookout for the upcoming thread, where we'll have everything up to date. I appreciate all of the voices here - supportive or dissenting - you're all helping us accomplish a better Knifecat for everyone.