Is there any point in playing Diana anymore?

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IronStylus

Sr. Concept Artist

12-07-2013
19 of 21 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellioning View Post
Do you ever think you're going to go back to designing new champions, parrot, or are you on the relaunch team for life?
I'm slow burning on some champions with a few designer friends. Nothing that's been approved or slotted though. Mainly focusing on Relaunch however since that's the team I'm dedicated to. But because I'm not drawing every single concept I have room to work on a champion, skin, or other stuff that my schedule allows.


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Neon Noble

Senior Member

12-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
I'm slow burning on some champions with a few designer friends. Nothing that's been approved or slotted though. Mainly focusing on Relaunch however since that's the team I'm dedicated to. But because I'm not drawing every single concept I have room to work on a champion, skin, or other stuff that my schedule allows.
I miss your appropriately-armored champions, Stylo. >:

I do appreciate your work on the relaunch team, though-- there's a lot of appropriate armor being handed out to old champs.


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Tyrannus0

Senior Member

12-07-2013

I know I've mentioned it before, but thanks again Mr. Parrot for creating my main.


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Raiyn

Senior Member

12-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phreak View Post
Oh? Which mid-laners outside of Malphite initiate fights as well as her? And then, if we keep the Malphite example, he doesn't have nearly the same DPS as her.

A year ago Diana was a must-play champion. All that happened was that her total damage went down a little bit and her initiation range went from "godlike" to "really freaking good." She wasn't the highest damage champion in the game, still isn't. Her initiation power was among the best in the game, and still is.

Some champions really just won't see competitive play unless they're broken OP (such as Irelia). This is because they don't do anything special. They're just a ball of stats, and there's really only ever one "best" ball of stats, since all you're doing is comparing numbers.

I disagree that Diana falls into this camp. She's a core initiator and great duelist. If teams don't value initiation power coming out of Diana, then they won't play her. But champions that do a specific thing well will only get played if the teams value that contribution. A team running an AoE comp won't play Zed. We could make literally zero changes to Zed, and if the metagame evolves to the point where AoE comps are the best option, Zed will disappear from competitive. It doesn't make the champion bad, subpar, or outclassed. It just means he actually provides a specific set of talents to a team, and the current teams don't want that set of talents. This will happen sometimes.

Edit: I think you're right that she's a little bit generalist (Bruiser vs. Assassin), but I think she has enough defining features to make it work. Look at Kayle: Is she a burst mage? DPS? Support? It's not so much "how many roles can they fill" but more "Does this champion do at least one thing really well, to where I'd really want to add this guy to the lineup?" I think the answer is yes for Diana.

Ori's R does the same "pulling together of people" as Diana's (W) and to boot it can be transported by someone else! No risks needed by you, the ranged player!


That's why (if I could play Orianna) I wouldn't play Diana anymore - not that I really do now, she's too average at everything.

Why play Diana when I could play (I can't LOL!) Orianna? Orianna does more damage, is ranged and provides a hell of a load more utility to the team.


Also Malphite as an example? Really? Mid? That seems crazy but..I'm going to start doing that to the Rivens in solo que, maybe ranked.



---------------


How bout instead of joking back and forth on a topic that a lot of people are interested in....Red's answer some of the questions posed that are legitimate contradictions to their opinions.


I.e. like my above post (though there are many).


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Eereechan

Junior Member

12-07-2013

What if we reduced the cast time on her E/slightly increased the radius? I'll often whiff the ability when it seems like it should have hit while chasing someone. This could also help emphasize her abilities as an initiator. Bonus points for upping her overly nerfed E shield/damage ratios.


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ColdMiller

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Senior Member

12-07-2013

as long as you do kog'maw I dont care what is re-updated on him :P

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
I'm slow burning on some champions with a few designer friends. Nothing that's been approved or slotted though. Mainly focusing on Relaunch however since that's the team I'm dedicated to. But because I'm not drawing every single concept I have room to work on a champion, skin, or other stuff that my schedule allows.


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KyreeXD

Senior Member

12-07-2013

Well then this seems to have been derailed by the people who are supposed to answer our questions...
What hope do we have now?


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lnzane

Senior Member

12-07-2013

bamp


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Focus Sash

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Senior Member

12-07-2013

I used to play her almost exclusively in the top lane as an initiating tanky AP-bruiser, holding upwards of a 78% win-ratio or so. Grab Sunfire Cape and Abyssal (Zhonya's if against full AD team) and you're pretty much golden, then you round it out with situational. 0/21/9

Problem is that this playstyle and item build isn't supported as well by the mastery trees as before, really. Tanky tanky for days is the new rage in this preseason (I go 2/25/3 on almost every champion now) and while Diana benefits greatly from the new offense tree, she doesn't benefit enough from it to overcome the champions that benefit more from the defense tree.

She was definitely pretty damn strong before (and essentially my go-to pick against Riven Season 3), but preseason has seen me having less than stellar experiences with her as champions that can abuse the mastery trees better outpace her for the playstyle.


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AlternateJ

Senior Member

12-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phreak
snip
Apparently this thread has been derailed...

On topic again: I'm a frequent Diana player, I've started to play her a lot this week again after taking a break because she just didn't feel... feasible. I've had really good and bad moments with her, and I like to consider myself knowledgeable of her capabilities. Sorry if I get a little enthused or hyperbolic but I care for this champion very much.

After playing more games with her on this new patch (and losing most, maybe I am bad, or maybe it is the champ idk. It will forever remain impossible to categorize) I still don't think that Diana is in as good a spot as you suggest Phreak.

Let's look at some of her core features and defining points:

1) Initiation (your idea not mine, but I can see what you mean)
Personally, I don't find her much of an initiator. She does well to initiate skirmishes and perhaps that should be what she plays to, but her initiation in team fights is about the same as any assassin with a gap closer (unless she has a perfect (Q)RE on a group of five...) Besides, if she does act as your team's main initiator than your team comp is kind of just derpy. She isn't nearly as tanky as you seem to giving her credit for. Sure she can rock that Zhonya's and that Abyssal but she is still easy to crush, especially considering she has no escape mechanisms unless she can pull off some great moonlight, lunar rush plays. I agree that all initiators need to be conscious of their position relative to their team's (and the enemy team's) but to say that she is a core initiator to me is a little stretching it.

Now let's return to that point about skirmishes. She does well in extended skirmishes to an extent. Her passive and her (if you play her patiently) Akali-style dashes can be VERY potent DPS, but her mana crutch is really intense. Her combo (QWRE(Q)R with whatever passive attacks you can get in) pretty much is a one time thing unless you are, like I said, patient with her Q's and aren't being focused which most coordinated teams can manage. Her reliance on blue buff regardless of where she is on the map is crazy. This is where her weakness in skirmishes comes from.

Speaking of blue buff and mana problems, she can't deal with laning phase push. Any champion that can push for two or three waves will come face to face with an oh-so threathening OOM Diana... That is neither here nor there (cough reduce W max mana cost)

2) Assassination and doing it without dying
Most assassins have some sort of durability/escape option. Diana has her shield, but has no real escapes. She hasn't much when it comes to the "Oops I attack an Ezreal and he E/Flashes away. Now I am in the middle of the enemy team... Uhhh, hey guys -w-' " Now let's look at other strong mid lane assassins:
Ahri: 3 Dashes and Charm kiting
Kassadin: Dumb ult (this champion tho...)
Gragas: Skillshot dash (granted is has a long CD now)
Fizz: Playful/Trickster as well as Q shenanigans
Zed: New Ult Shadow
Kha'Zix & Katarina: Gap closers that reset on kill/assist
Nidalee (she's listed as an assassin okay?): Insane heals, Pounsce
Diana: (Q),R to an enemy? Maybe?

I remember when Akali was being looked at a Red said: "Akali's only real option for escape is to simply dominate and kill her opponent." I find that to be the case with Diana. And that would be all fine and dandy if she could actually do it in her current state. Her (as I mentioned before) mana thirst throughout a skirmish ends up being her kryptonite and being that her durabiltiy option is her highest costing spell, her dueling options (to act as an escape option) are pretty weak. Not to mention that her ability to keep up with the damage/durability treadmill if she doesn't stomp her lane is pretty non-existent. Her winrate of 48% shows this a bit. If she falls behind there is no mid-late game with her (extreme circumstances aside.)

Now there is a problem I constantly see when the community (or I guess more a champion fandom) comes to GD to tell Riot that a champion is struggling. I feel like the constant response is: "Well this champion doesn't see much play, but they do this (*whispers* and fails at everything else) so they have an obvious place in the game as a strong *insert strength*

Diana strong features are her durability, DPS and innate ability to keep up with targets. Her durability is pretty much only bought with extreme gold or extreme mana (both of which are unideal when you try to make the argument that she is some tanky disruptor/initiator.) Her DPS has been nerfed multiple times, and her ability to keep up with targets is only the real strength that she retained. But when you keep in mind that her keeping up potential is reliant on enemies ignoring her for a while ( as she does poor damage compared to other similarly mobile assassins) you are left with a typical champion hobbled by overdone nerfs.

While I am not saying that she is like Sion level trash, as I acknowledge that she is strong in some instances like if you have her constantly supplied with blue buff and you are against an immobile enemy team with little to no disengage, she pretty much just pales (punny, cause like... the moon?) in comparison to other champions. I don't want her to be broken-OP status, but I mean, you can't lie and say that she doesn't need any love.

(Or perhaps you will prove us wrong like when you said that Ahri was fine when people wanted her buffed and 3 months later she was OP status)

TL; DR: Her strengths aren't anything that she can perform well enough to warrant a pick anymore really. People do her job better, safer, faster, and more efficiently.

EDIT: That is some horrible spelling/grammar