Let's talk about Xerath

First Riot Post
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Fawstus

Senior Member

11-28-2013

Hey Xelnath, how ya doin?

I've been waiting for some updates on this rework like everybody else here, but I've been thinking about some things that may or may not be taken in consideration when Xerath's final version comes out.

We already defined Xerath's 'special thing': it's his absurd range that leads into insane poke potential and sieging.

Also, Xerath is the Magus Ascendant. IMO, this means his power should be 'unlimited somehow'. Follow me on this: League has a few champs with 'unlimited power'; in theory, champions like Nasus, Veigar, Thresh and Sion all have 'unlimited' growth potential, two of them have 'unlimited' AP (I am using '' because we all know that this potential is limited by match duration and other factors).

Now, if given the power to do so, I'd try to implement some sort of 'unlimited' growth on Xerath's kit. I'd be tempted to give him ever growing AP... But this has been done before twice and is actually Veigar's 'special thing'. Some would be tempted to give him ever growing Spell Pen, but then this would be too strong, since 40% Spell Pen is enough to make Tanks cry, god knows what would happen if Xerath could get more than that (also, the Max Spell Pen is already set, so this is a 'no no').

So, what would it be? AP is overused and Spell Pen would be too powerful or impossible to actually implement. We are left with only one thing that is also Xerath's trademark: Range. A possibility into Unlimited Range.

I imagine a small growth (something that would really make a difference only into mid/late game) as a passive inside his Ult, something that says "Xerath begins to ascend! Each time Xerath lands one of his basic skills on an enemy champion that skill gains X bonus range". Now, that could mean a lot of extra range, so I propose diminishing returns, like Thresh's old passive. Also, the Ult would never gain that bonus range. Also, Q, W and E could have different growth ratios

Why am I proposing this? Well, first because I think that would be a nice reward for different styles and player skills: if I am really good at landing his Q, I am rewarded a little bit more when I use it. If I am really good at landing his harder to land E, then I am rewarded even more for being accurate with that! Second because some day it will come to Riot to make a champion with this, and I will be sad on that day, because it won't be Xerath.

Just a few ideas, while we are still on playtesting grounds.


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EternalnighmareZ

Junior Member

11-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Despia View Post
I hope you played him while the new version was on PBE.
Maybe you loved that kit, maybe. But to me, it sucks. Really sucks.

1. He can move while charging his Q, as you said.
But the speed of firing Q became so terribly slow, that it makes me think rooting is far more better.
If you played him, then you will know this.

Current one is Channeling - fire.
Reworked version was Charging - Channeling - Fire.
Yeah, it really makes me think that it tooks about 1 second to fire Q on the new version.

Also, its basic range became suck too, it doesn't help me as much as it did on lane phase in current version.
Of course, I think his rework cancelled right now because no users neither rioters give us any kind of info, which makes me very happy, but for me, new Q on reworked version was something like I said. It sucks.

By the way, I agree that it can be more useful in some aspects, because although its mana cost became sucks, it has much higher damage then it does.

2. His E. I totally can't agree with you, because new E was so slow, blocked by minion, and lower damage.
I definitely agree that his current E has short range then other spells. It is definitely right.
But when I play Xerath, I don't think I must have to hit E on enemy champion while I'm poking, and I think while fighting, you have to be at risk if you want to give CC to enemy. And the best thing is, it is a targeting spell, it has very big meaning to Xerath, because his other main damage dealing spells are all non-targeting spell.
I also think landing his other spell is much easier then landing his new Q, because it can be dodged, but it can't be blocked, at least.. New E also has very short stun time then it had.

3. Cosmic strike.. if you used this spell, maybe you found out that it is sucking mana consuming spell.
Of course, you may think it is better because it gives slow, and maybe his new passive in reworked version may help Xerath to restore mana.
Well, but not. Cosmic strike consumes 100 mana at skill level 1, remember? and it is so difficult to land on enemy if we can't land new E on champion, which can be blocked by minions, which came out all the time! and his passive only restores very little mana at early level, it doesn't do any help.

4. Yeah, I actually agree that his new ultimate was not that bad.
But to me, personally, it was not fun at all.
See, Xerath right now has skill combo which flows very naturally, which can be used with or without his ult.
But reworked one, his ultimate doesn't have any kind of relationship with his other spells! Of course, it is powerful spell, but it is not fun at all.

5. You said about inconvenience of Locus, but to me, of course it does have very long cooldown at early level, it is not uncomfortable at all. Actually, I think it has to have long cooldown at early level, because I can get many benefits from it. MP, bonus range, and movement speed buff. Especially for speed buff, it helps me a lot to assassinate enemy or relocate for another shot, in team-fight, or in lane phase.


So now here are the reasons, why I, one of the those who says this rework sucks, think this rework sucks.
I think this kind of discussion is very useless, because it's just saying same things over and over again.
As you see, we are looking at the same thing, but we are saying different things, because we have different kind of perspective. You may cannot persuade me, nor I can persuade you, maybe.

( because, I think you can acknowledge this. New skill set has both better things and worse things. I don't like this rework and I'm happy by this rework doesn't progress anymore, because I hate those bad thing much more then I love better things. But you, you love those better things much more then you hate worse things you may had in new skill set. You see, it is just a matter of perspective and our mind. Of course if you didn't played Xerath before, you don't have right to say 'this version is far better then before!' because you don't know what was him 'before'. I hope you played him a lot before. )

But anyway, I gave you my concrete reasons, I hope it helps you to understand me, or some other people.
thank you so much for your opinion. I really appreciated. like I said before i main xerath and he is my to-go champion.
I never tried the PBE, since i dont have a PBE account, and i didnt know about the huge mana cost on Cosmic Strike. or the slow movement when charging or his ult being boring.
i saw his rework on youtube and i though it was awesome (nobody in youtube said he sucked).
maybe he is better when he is left alone, im not sure.
but to me his new theme (pure magic to lighting) is a lot better. i have to say his q (regardless of the efficiency) looks a lot better in rework. the old three little string of lighting, new a ray of pure energy. if they did cancel the rework i wish they at least use his new theme.


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Despia

Member

12-02-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by EternalnighmareZ View Post
thank you so much for your opinion. I really appreciated. like I said before i main xerath and he is my to-go champion.
I never tried the PBE, since i dont have a PBE account, and i didnt know about the huge mana cost on Cosmic Strike. or the slow movement when charging or his ult being boring.
i saw his rework on youtube and i though it was awesome (nobody in youtube said he sucked).
maybe he is better when he is left alone, im not sure.
but to me his new theme (pure magic to lighting) is a lot better. i have to say his q (regardless of the efficiency) looks a lot better in rework. the old three little string of lighting, new a ray of pure energy. if they did cancel the rework i wish they at least use his new theme.
Thanks for replying. I also love his new visual kit, such as in his new arcanopulse.
But when I look at this rework entirely, then the things I said really annoys me.


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No CS For You

Senior Member

12-02-2013

dont bump this anymore....


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SirRancealot

Member

12-02-2013

logged in just to bump


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Votable Jester

Junior Member

12-05-2013

What if they kept his kit the same but made a change to his ult. Instead of shooting these tiny sparks at his enemy, he could gain several seconds of a lazer-like ability from the sky. It could be held down and used up quickly for large burst or use it in short, quick bursts.


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Unbeatabledeath

Senior Member

12-06-2013

bump come on Xelnath your not going to be my favorite R person anymore!!!!


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Xelnath

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Systems Designer

12-06-2013
157 of 159 Riot Posts

Hey guys, it's been a while.

Preseason work has settled down... and I just got to check out Xerath's new ultimate art. Bitsplosion does amazing work, so we'll be resuming internal work on Xerath soon(tm). Since Riot dates are always changing, I will say that it won't be 3.15, and that after 3.15 ships, I would expect to see him back in competitive testing.

Sorry, no screenshots. It's more fun to leave you a little something to anticipate.


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Hellioning

Senior Member

12-06-2013

Excellent!

Now, where is Poppy's thread? Or Irelia's, I will accept either.


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PastrySandwich

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Senior Member

12-06-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
Hey guys, it's been a while.

Preseason work has settled down... and I just got to check out Xerath's new ultimate art. Bitsplosion does amazing work, so we'll be resuming internal work on Xerath soon(tm). Since Riot dates are always changing, I will say that it won't be 3.15, and that after 3.15 ships, I would expect to see him back in competitive testing.

Sorry, no screenshots. It's more fun to leave you a little something to anticipate.

How bout you comment of the most ignored thread ever

http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com...1#post43586542