Ryze Winrate Really Low

First Riot Post
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Jean Never Wins

Member

12-06-2013

i have consistently been 0/4/0 as ryze in 13-15 mins

I can't stop fumbling combos, even with smart cast on,

I end up winning because my enemies don't understand diminishing gold returns and tear stacks up

he just can't survive early game


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Phreak

Shoutcaster

12-06-2013
2 of 4 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by ValderiusRex View Post
Apparently Ryze, the champion with 0 skill shots, miniscule cool downs, limitless mana by virtue of tear, and an optimal attack rotation of "PUSH ALL THE BUTTONS!" is mechanically complex.

I am genuinely suprised by that one, Phreak.
I was too, except that it's an easily statistically-backed fact.

I know for all of us playing in diamond or whatever it's hard to put ourselves back to when we were newer at the game, but it's just true. I play with my Bronze II friend sometimes, and yeah he just has really awkward item builds. He doesn't click very quickly. He would suffer on a champion like Ryze, compared to someone like Renekton where it's okay if you wait an extra second to press R or E. You're still getting most of the effect out of that ability. This is a significant drawback to Ryze, however.

Even something as simple as smart casting saves a decent chunk of time in the grand scheme of things. Depending on the player, we're looking at literally 25% damage difference by not putting his abilities back on cooldown as quickly as possible.


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Phreak

Shoutcaster

12-06-2013
3 of 4 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by ValderiusRex View Post
By that logic, every Marksman with the exception of Caitlyn should be nigh unplayable at bronze because they require positional knowledge.

Every champion requires positional knowledge to some extent, that isn't what mechanical complexity means. Jayce is mechanically complex as you're managing 7 cool downs instead of 4. Rumble is mechanically complex because his heat resource requires a lot of effort to optimize. Xerath is mechanically complex because his spells have variable ranges are require precise skill shot aiming.

Ryze is a a point-and-click button mashing damage dealer. There is no mechanical complexity to Ryze.
Mashing buttons is a significant DPS loss. Weaving Q between each ability and tracking all your cooldowns while also orb-walking to keep up with your target is extremely important.

Heck, even the Riven Champion Spotlight stresses auto-attacking between abilities. I sat next to a guy who would always just QQQ immediately every time. Dude mains Riven. Believe it or not, MOBAs aren't actually that easy to play. If they were, we'd all be Doublelift.

Heck, you're in Platinum. Clearly you play a lot. Why aren't you in the LCS? Seems like you can describe how to play every champion perfectly in two sentences.


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Eyrgos

Senior Member

12-06-2013

Regardless, he's a dumb champion (spam-spam-spam all four!)

Just like Annie.

Archaic, outdated designs.


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Shoukansha Ichi

Senior Member

12-06-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phreak View Post
I was too, except that it's an easily statistically-backed fact.

I know for all of us playing in diamond or whatever it's hard to put ourselves back to when we were newer at the game, but it's just true. I play with my Bronze II friend sometimes, and yeah he just has really awkward item builds. He doesn't click very quickly. He would suffer on a champion like Ryze, compared to someone like Renekton where it's okay if you wait an extra second to press R or E. You're still getting most of the effect out of that ability. This is a significant drawback to Ryze, however.

Even something as simple as smart casting saves a decent chunk of time in the grand scheme of things. Depending on the player, we're looking at literally 25% damage difference by not putting his abilities back on cooldown as quickly as possible.
I have a small question about this then. How come Darius used to get a better winrate the higher up in elo you went? Like it went completely opposite of what people thought he did, but I can't really find any reason why...


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Eyrgos

Senior Member

12-06-2013

Skill.


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agbudar

Senior Member

12-06-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phreak View Post
The interesting thing is, his win rate actually heavily changes based on the skill level of the player. You can check this yourself by clicking the "Bronze" or "Silver" graph, and then clicking the "Diamond" one in ranked solo queue.

The running theory is that his mechanical complexity is actually fairly high. Players have to be able to constantly find and cast on targets with little down time for optimal effectiveness. Tendency to have Smart Cast on is also a big potential reason here.

I think there's also a big chance that as player skill increases, people tend to build him more optimally. While there are a bunch of good caster items out there, the players that know to go Frozen Heart, not Athene's, and Tear/RoA, not Deathcap, are getting more mileage out of him.

So for what it's worth, it seems like he works perfectly fine for players who know how to play him optimally. I think the gap between optimal and sub-optimal play/builds on Ryze is probably higher than most other champions.
very true indeed btw what do you think of the muramana/arc staff combo saw someone pull it off and did insane damage (like veigar ult but with a 5 second cd) but he was rather squishy


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Fire Fist Fenix

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Senior Member

12-06-2013

I remember one PBE patch they buffed his base stats like HP and Armor, but that never made it to live, why?


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KanColle

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Recruiter

12-06-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phreak View Post
Heck, you're in Platinum. Clearly you play a lot. Why aren't you in the LCS? Seems like you can describe how to play every champion perfectly in two sentences.

Damn son, he might be crying after that one.


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David Hume

Senior Member

12-06-2013

As a silver-ish player who likes Ryze but sucks with him:
If I had a dollar for every time I cast Q / Spell Flux exactly as I got in range of the target, and the time Ryze spent casting the spell allowed the other guy to get out of range of Rune Prison, I'd have a lot of dollars.

I lose a lot of casts reaching for a high value target at 620 units away when there's a tank within range, and the quarter of a second it takes me to walk that 20 points is dead cycle time. It probably doesn't help that I never start moving towards the target until my Q is actually off CD, so all of my walking time is dead time. Alternatively, I'll be in a great position to snare a fleeing/chasing carry and then realize I just mechanically snared Alistar to get my Q off cooldown faster. Derp.

I'm pretty sure I use is ult at the wrong time, every time. Do you want it in the middle of your rotation to get your Q back faster? At the start for maximum AOE damage / spell vamp? Or even before that, for positioning / initiation?

Personal opinion: raise Q cd to 4s and give him better base HP / armor to compensate.