Is there any point in playing Diana anymore?

First Riot Post
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KyreeXD

Senior Member

12-05-2013

Well we got our answer i am glad we got it thank you Bird


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AR Manimal

Senior Member

12-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
That's just because I'm more active on the forums than most. High visitation = high visibility.
Wish the rest of Riot would give as much attention to their champions as you do.


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Diamandis

Senior Member

12-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
Attachment 848394

So.. Obviously I'm not a designer, and have no promises or guarantees that things will change, but I've passed this thread onto a Live Designer to see if there are any thoughts on the matter. I think she's in a little bit odd of a place now, living in sort of a nebulous assassin/AP bruiser/sorta-tanky/mage-thing. So, with that in mind, some people might have ideas as to how to make her a bit more viable in one or a couple of those directions, but still keeping her thematically consistent.

One of the things I think Diana achieves from a gameplay standpoint, and I am a TERRIBLE judge of this, is decent themeatics. When I play her I feel like a self-immolating martyr, which I think is appropriate, but it might not have the best result in the actual playing of the game!

Either way, I've thrown this towards Live Design. AGAIN! No idea if they'll have a look, but who knows. I genuinely like playing Diana, I like her pattern, so for me it's not really about having a part in her creation as it is a feeling as a player. Only reason I chime in here is because I do play her a lot, I do sympathize, and I have heard that a couple of people might look into her current state. I normally can't do this with many other champions unless I have an intimate knowledge of them.

Sorry to play favorites! Not my intention, I just happen to be familiar with her

thank you so much for noticing this thread, Ironstylus! It means a lot. And yes, as someone pointed out in the first page of this thread, she's a jack of trades, master of none. However, if you want her core gameplay design to fit in with her theme, it'll be more fitting going the assassin route over the bruiser route. I say this because assassins lore-wise are really passionate about what they do (Zed, Rengar, Katarina, Talon) and Diana has a lot of that. I guess if we were to do that though buffing Q wouldn't be the right route since it's a poke abilitiy and she's an all-in champ like her sister Leona (I like that connection). I still think the Moonfall buff I suggested is good though

Anyways, thank you for passing this on to some designers, and more importantly, thank you for creating Diana. The moon shall rise, the night will last forever. <3


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Phreak

Shoutcaster

12-05-2013
3 of 21 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diamandis View Post
Proposal: Increase Q's base damage, and switch back the passive nerf. It'd give Diana more reason to build Nashor's Tooth and also it's a healthy way to buff her while having counterplay because Q is a skillshot. I can understand why they nerfed W because it's almost always going to get proc'd and has no counterplay, and R is a targetted gapcloser so buffing it would just be unhealthy.

Buff Moonfall's size and slow per rank. The slow could go like this: 40%/45%/50%/55%/60%. And the AoE radius can go like this: 200/275/350/425/500
A few thoughts for you:

1. I think Diana is great. I think she's powerful. To answer the question in your title: Yes. Diana is a great mid-lane initiator with a lot of threat and the ability to go bruiser or burst assassin. QWRRQ is a lot of burst damage if you build Deathcap/Void Staff or even Haunting/Abyssal. You can also go Merc/Nashor's/Zhonya's and tank incoming damage while dishing out a lot through your passive.

2. Outside of special cases like ultimates, ranges should basically never increase with rank. It makes it impossible to learn the champion both playing as and against. Most ranged are learned by feel. Learning 5 ranges on a single ability is pretty wack.

3. As IronStylus pointed out, there is a bit of crossover between the roles, which can make things difficult to balance. In the case of increasing Q damage, there really isn't always counter-play there. For example, one of the core combos used in competitive is actually RWEQ. There's no way you're dodging the Q there, meaning that you're just getting braindead impossible to dodge burst. Ironically, I feel like increasing the damage on R actually increases the skill ceiling: Getting the resets through landing Q, choosing to sacrifice DPS in order to move around again... If R didn't deal any damage, it'd be a lot easier to choose when to use R. Making it meaningfully damaging while not just oneshotting you with only a single skill shot is a fine balance to strike.

Either way, I do want to go back to point 1. I think she's actually already great. But that's just my opinion.


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Nightfall

Junior Member

12-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phreak View Post
A few thoughts for you:

1. I think Diana is great. I think she's powerful. To answer the question in your title: Yes. Diana is a great mid-lane initiator with a lot of threat and the ability to go bruiser or burst assassin. QWRRQ is a lot of burst damage if you build Deathcap/Void Staff or even Haunting/Abyssal. You can also go Merc/Nashor's/Zhonya's and tank incoming damage while dishing out a lot through your passive.

2. Outside of special cases like ultimates, ranges should basically never increase with rank. It makes it impossible to learn the champion both playing as and against. Most ranged are learned by feel. Learning 5 ranges on a single ability is pretty wack.

3. As IronStylus pointed out, there is a bit of crossover between the roles, which can make things difficult to balance. In the case of increasing Q damage, there really isn't always counter-play there. For example, one of the core combos used in competitive is actually RWEQ. There's no way you're dodging the Q there, meaning that you're just getting braindead impossible to dodge burst. Ironically, I feel like increasing the damage on R actually increases the skill ceiling: Getting the resets through landing Q, choosing to sacrifice DPS in order to move around again... If R didn't deal any damage, it'd be a lot easier to choose when to use R. Making it meaningfully damaging while not just oneshotting you with only a single skill shot is a fine balance to strike.

Either way, I do want to go back to point 1. I think she's actually already great. But that's just my opinion.
It's not that Diana is actually bad, it's that she's outclassed because she's average at everything and excels at nothing. She isn't gonna be picked competitively unless she gets buffed or the champs better than her get nerfed.

I think her power should be focused more in 1 aspect, whether it's assassin or bruiser. I just can't seem to do well in any ranked game I play with her anymore since the last nerf.

Maybe I just suck, but I just feel like she's weak now.


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Eyrgos

Senior Member

12-05-2013

What about putting a minimum cast-distance on Q so you can't just cast it in melee (an unavoidable case)?


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JabaRune

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Senior Member

12-05-2013

I tried her the other day for the first time and I felt like she was very powerful. Probably going to be one of my main champs now.


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PVRSE

Senior Member

12-05-2013

I completely agree with phreak. I think Diana is in an ideal position at the moment. She's not overwhelming enough for an opponent to leave a game after losing to her and scream "OP", but she can absolutely do well when she gets ahead. Do not change the state of her, or Riot will ruin her like they did once before.


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Wezz

Senior Member

12-05-2013

I think my theory still stands that people don't play balanced champions


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RyszardMalfore

Member

12-05-2013

Personally, I would like to see her more focused into an assassin-ish role, rather than a bruiser one.