Ransom - "Poor Riven... I see some drama in her future"

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Ransom

Creative Designer

11-27-2013
6 of 6 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnAggravatedPimp View Post
The name is more ironic than factual.

But on topic, WOOOOOOO MORE RIVEN LORE INCOMING !!!!!!

Well, more Yasuo stuff. And there are some more wrinkles to what we know about Yasuo vs. Riven. I think calling it MOAR RIVEN LORE!!! is probably overpromising.


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AnAggravatedPimp

Senior Member

11-27-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by ransom View Post
well, more yasuo stuff. And there are some more wrinkles to what we know about yasuo vs. Riven. I think calling it moar riven lore!!! Is probably overpromising.
woooooo close enough!!!!!


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AbrahamBaconham

Senior Member

11-27-2013

Do you think Ransom was hinting at Yasou vs Riven or the unstoppable tide of unreasonable "Nerf Riven" threads?


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AnAggravatedPimp

Senior Member

11-27-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by AbrahamBaconham View Post
Do you think Ransom was hinting at Yasou vs Riven or the unstoppable tide of unreasonable "Nerf Riven" threads?
We asked the same thing earlier in the thread. But it was defs the Wind Caster© conflict he was hinting at


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Empyrius

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Senior Member

11-27-2013

Now if we could get more info on that Texture pack that was data mined.... ARGHHHHHHHHHH THE TENSION. To much lore and possibility of SKIN.


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FalkorsRaiders

Senior Member

11-27-2013

So, about this new lore that will hit: where will it be? Are you adding it in lines Yasuo will say to riven, then we have to wait until Riven gets more VO lines for more? Are you adding it to the brief lore that accompanies every new champion's page in the info tab? Are you adding it by having fans speculate on what is/isn't happening and responding "maybe, maybe not" like has what happened for the past year?

I understand Riot likes the fact that fans speculate on what may or may not happen, but their isn't anything actually happening. There is no lore progressing anyone's story. Even when Riot changes lore and updates it, they don't change everything. When will Singed or Maokai be getting updated lore to match the new lore you made? When they get a VU or when they get reworked?


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Auryiel

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Member

11-27-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnAggravatedPimp View Post
It depends on if the criticism is actually constructive. If someone just says the lore team sucks and the new lore is bad that's not helpful, that's an insult. If someone says that they dislike how Udyr meets with a non blind Lee Sin in his new lore because it breaks Lee's lore, then the team has something to work with and can give feedback on. They did fix that issue btw.
The guy you quoted says it very well. They pretty much never take criticism (notice how Ransom quotes you and not him? lol...), even when it's polite and constructive.

The reason every lore criticism as devolved into ''The lore team sucks'' IS BECAUSE they never have real discussions about their work. Like... never. There's a LOT of frustration and they just ignore it completely.

And, by the way, the issue they fixed about Udyr/Lee should not have existed in the first place when they take so much time to pump out anything. If really they put that much time and effort into trying to produce quality, it's perfectly normal to expect QUALITY LORE. Right now, neither quantity nor quality is there, really.

Quantity, well I don't think I need to explain it.
Quality, because they write all their lore as though its all woven into one big story. Well that's fine, that's actually GREAT. Except for the part where we don't ever see more than tiny glimpses into this big, huge story that they proceed to never reveal anything about. It's always just cryptic hints at best, most often it's just nothing. Their lore also never leads to anything. Freljord? Man sure was exciting... Except it's frozen in time, never to be resolved. They KNOW the game they write the lore for has kind of an immovable quality to it and they don't adapt their story telling to cope with that fact. Also, a lot of things are just... Gone. JoJ, Reflections, a reason for the champions to BE IN THE LEAGUE. Ok, maybe they had good reasons to remove them. But the problem is simple : they remove, remove, remove, they never replace, they never add anything new. At best you could argue that champions in-game have interactions with each other now. Well that's IT. THAT'S all they came up with in what, now, 3 years? I also think it's kind of pathetic that Singed's lore has not been changed yet. Seriously, it's been how long? All this has been said again and again and they don't listen. They are not interested in improving themselves. They just do the same mistakes over and over again.

Like I said, I for one am done trying to have a discussion with them. I know how it will turn out : they will completely ignore anyone who has valid concerns and only listen to the praises. So, yeah, I won't be embarrassed by my attitude when these so-called professionals are not embarrassed by how they act.


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Great Owl

Senior Member

11-27-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnAggravatedPimp View Post
It depends on if the criticism is actually constructive. If someone just says the lore team sucks and the new lore is bad that's not helpful, that's an insult. If someone says that they dislike how Udyr meets with a non blind Lee Sin in his new lore because it breaks Lee's lore, then the team has something to work with and can give feedback on. They did fix that issue btw.
Technicalities and changes of personality are different. When Karma got reworked, they added fans and made the traditional skin have a full dress because it was a big part of her visually. But when Trundle got reworked and people complain about a lack of his previous personality or motivations, they get snubbed because "his story was over" and other things that didn't really justify the change. Now people are worried about shipping hurting the integrity of the story and not always making sense, or whatever else people are complaining about here, it get ignored. Heck Random just ignored my comment but complimented your response. Its not like I said "**** u random, l2write lore nub". I made a comment saying I wished they responded to criticism more and acknowledge good points that conflict with their direction. It was level headed and reasonable, in my opinion. Your point is reasonable too, but he obviously read mine, so why does he ignore it? Couldn't he at least say "We read and consider other points of view" or something to that extent?


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Great Owl

Senior Member

11-27-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ransom View Post
(I also think she comes off as a bit emo in her VO script.)
Oh thank god, someone else thinks that. I mean, yeah she went through horrible battles and stuff, but so did a ton of other champions, and it gives off this sort of "pity me" vibe that I don't think someone looking for redemption should possess. I'd like more determination and a sort of "I did wrong, now I'm going to fix it!" tone.


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El Dez

Member

11-27-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ransom View Post
Well, more Yasuo stuff. And there are some more wrinkles to what we know about Yasuo vs. Riven. I think calling it MOAR RIVEN LORE!!! is probably overpromising.
Couple things.

So since Yasuo's bio is already on the PBE (and is partially the basis of this thread), we can only assume any additional wrinkles in his and Riven's story will come in the form of "something else". Historically, this could be a new champion (kinda far off, unlikely before the new year) or special things like a comic or a music video. If it's either, and since the latter would be focused mainly on Yasuo, any aspects of Riven's character that are brought up would be downplayed.

That said, since Riven's abilities are similar to a rare Ionian style and we all assumed that she had trained in Noxus, the exact connection is still unclear. If it isn't explained, its falls flat as a meaningful hint and becomes a coincidence. I don't think that's what it is considering the audio files.

I guess my question is how much of her story are you changing? I'm guessing she's still from Noxus, was still wronged by Singed, and was still a major figure in the sacking of Southern Ionia. Is the fact that's she's from Noxus going to change? Will she still be (for lack of a better term) ethnically Noxian or is Noxus only the place where she grew up?

I ask these questions because I also love Riven as a character and have wanted more from her. Her League Judgement in particular painted a very clear picture of her character and how she's attempting to adhere to her beliefs. She's less sure of her past actions because she was betrayed by her own nation. She realized the entire war effort was probably a mad dash for wealth and control rather than elevating the world through strength. However, she's certain of her philosophy and her loyalty to what she sees as the True Noxus. This certainty is expressed through her in-game audio ("To serve the greater good.", etc.). To Riven, Noxus is an uncompromising meritocracy and that vision was shattered when the stronger force failed.

I'm a bit afraid that the certainty that Riven DOES have is going to be altered to make her morally aimless or less emotionally stable to the point where Yasuo is the more grounded person. The entire reason Riven is a great character is because she's basically saying "Ok, I'm disillusioned by these events and that's still affecting me, but I still believe in this core ideal absolutely. Social Darwinism isn't popular outside of Noxus and meaningless slaughter seems to be in vogue in my home nation, but nothing will shake my beliefs." Part of what's interesting about Riven is that her philosophy may be better than Noxus' current ideology, but is still not nice. I don't want anyone to make Riven nicer. I don't want Yasuo to be a person who gets Riven to say "Social Darwinism is bull****". It's ok if they're able to see similarities between themselves and learn something mutually, but I'm afraid that since this is Yasuo's time to shine, he might eclipse Riven's established traits and complexity.