anyway to make this game less rock paper scissors?

First Riot Post
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Emzeeshady

Senior Member

11-26-2013

Pick Kennen

You can be aggressive if its an easy matchup but most importantly the long range of his shurikens and his e enable you to farm incredibly safely vs any mid laner.


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Rykaal

Senior Member

11-26-2013

Almost every matchup can be overcome by player skill, I'll post an example of what some call a hard counter.

Renekton vs Riven: If the Riven player is extremely good vs only a decent Renekton player, The Riven player will have a slight edge, but still have a hard time. But if the Renekton is a moron, Riven will probably win the matchup quite hard.


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Auryiel

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Member

11-26-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotWrekz View Post
If you are high in the pick order you would be well served by making a more strategic pick and playing a champion that is going to be relatively safe regardless of lane matchup. Jax is a good example of this in top, a lot of top laners can bully him before 6 and then the lane flips because he gains a lot of consistent power. Naturally this also depends on you playing the lane correctly when in an unfavorable matchup.

If you identify when the enemy laner is going to be getting the most out of their power you can plan the lane around engagements are specific level breaks and play defensively outside of those windows. Barring cases where two champions do not belong in a lane against each other the fundamental toolkit that identifies a champion belonging in X lane should give them the tools to interact with likely opponents in that lane.

Counters inside that context (mage vs mage) are minimal and can frequently be responded to by shifting playstyle and responding appropriately to being behind. Understanding you are behind and shifting to a defensive playstyle can even allow you to get back in the lane as the aggressive player will cause the lane to push and open opportunities for ganks.
And then a bruiser goes mid and you wish you had never spent IP on champions that scale with AP.


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TonySoprano2013

Senior Member

11-26-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rykaal View Post
Almost every matchup can be overcome by player skill, I'll post an example of what some call a hard counter.

Renekton vs Riven: If the Riven player is extremely good vs only a decent Renekton player, The Riven player will have a slight edge, but still have a hard time. But if the Renekton is a moron, Riven will probably win the matchup quite hard.
top lane is way different both but that matchup is skill based anyways. I am silver and i have beat diamond players by counterpicking. EZ


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Aheadatime

Senior Member

11-26-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daedalus871 View Post
A well played Lux has no counters.
Talon gives lux an incredibly hard time, and this is coming from an experienced lux player.

For real safe mid picks, I'd go with malzahar and galio. Malz is my favorite champ and my main, but it really feels like I've only been beaten mid a handful of times, and those were learning experiences as opposed to simple hard counters. LB and fizz give malz the hardest time imo, which is experience come in.

Every four abilities summons his voidling, which will farm for him. It targets minions/champs that hes autoattacking, that are in his pool (w), caught by his disease (e), or disabled by his ult, in opposite order of priority. Basically, you want to start each wave with a pool and disease, with the latter popping his passive. This ensures you get easy farm on the melee minions.

Now that your passive has reset, cast 2 abilities during this wave to ensure that you can repeat your pool/disease on the next wave. I usually go for a silence/disease on opponent, but if I'm being extra cautious I'll just use silence/disease on caster minions for the easy farm.

Using this method, I've yet to have been 'ruined' or 'wrecked' by any opponent, including fizz's and lb's now that I've gotten much more used to malz's mechanics. His safe distance, easy farm, and hard CC let him play safe against pretty much anyone, although some matchups are a battle of wits.

Galio is a safe pick too, but that's assuming the enemy puts an APC mid. If you go up against a zed/talon/panth/lee, youre screwed. I generally go galio when I just want to win the game without doing much if I'm in the counterpick position and the enemy has already chosen a mage for mid.

Start mantle potions, and build into MR boots/athenes asap. I tend to finish with abyssal, spirit visage (which helps his shield out), rylais, and ROA. At this point I have enough health to sort of deal with the enemy ADC, but the real advantage is having all of that bonus AP just laying around due to his passive. Half of his MR gets converted into AP, so building hybrid MR/AP items like athenes and abyssal really works to his advantage. You can always build on the fly though, with things like deathcap, GA, void staff, zhonyas, etc.


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RiotWrekz

Champion Designer

11-26-2013
2 of 2 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonySoprano2013 View Post
first off wow i got a red response. second off I feel what your saying is rather obvious i have always used that knowledge to my advantage. Allthough i guess alot of like bronze players dont think about those things. the problem is ok, im just supposed to pick jax riven nida or other bogus FOTM champs that deserve obvious nerfs because they are so strong no one can counter them?

Why cant i just play a champ I want to play? Sounds more fun. I dont wanna be forced into boring safe picks just because this game depends WAY too much on counterpicking. Please riot makes this game less about counterpicking and games getting determined in champ select
I believe you are misinterpreting my response. I'm not encouraging you to pick "flavor of the month OP champion" I'm saying that if you play high risk champions that excel in some matchups but not in others you are going to feel like the game has more counters. If you play champions that are pretty flexible in terms of who they can lane against and are well suited for the lane you are taking them then the consequences of losing a lane are nowhere near as high.

There is a clear difference between a champion being "overpowered" and a champion having a strong and versatile lane phase. There are a number of champions with powerful team fight potential that struggle during lane phase in many match ups. Finally, "countering" a champion doesn't just mean picking someone that can win a lane against them, it means evaluating what they bring to a team comp and where you can slot the response to that. As an example, you don't run Zac in mid to counter nidalee, you run hard engage throughout your team to stop her from poking and disengaging.


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Rucima

Senior Member

11-26-2013

But that doesn't really help when the passive gold gain is raised so much that even when you do get kills in those windows they catch back up way to quick.


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Maximum Hexerin

Senior Member

11-26-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotWrekz View Post
If you are high in the pick order you would be well served by making a more strategic pick and playing a champion that is going to be relatively safe regardless of lane matchup. Jax is a good example of this in top, a lot of top laners can bully him before 6 and then the lane flips because he gains a lot of consistent power. Naturally this also depends on you playing the lane correctly when in an unfavorable matchup.

If you identify when the enemy laner is going to be getting the most out of their power you can plan the lane around engagements are specific level breaks and play defensively outside of those windows. Barring cases where two champions do not belong in a lane against each other the fundamental toolkit that identifies a champion belonging in X lane should give them the tools to interact with likely opponents in that lane.

Counters inside that context (mage vs mage) are minimal and can frequently be responded to by shifting playstyle and responding appropriately to being behind. Understanding you are behind and shifting to a defensive playstyle can even allow you to get back in the lane as the aggressive player will cause the lane to push and open opportunities for ganks.
while good information, you're coming from a standpoint that assumes good teamwork.
good teamwork is extremely rare in soloQ.


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Onimallar

Senior Member

11-26-2013

So re-roll your lanes.

Enemy picks Fiz mid against your aniva. Aniva will probably be hurt from this. So move aniva to another lane. Maybe switch your supports (tarric/alistar/leona mid) or switch aniva with your adc.

hell, move your mage top and bruiser mid. Lanes are not concrete.


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TonySoprano2013

Senior Member

11-26-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Onimallar View Post
So re-roll your lanes.

Enemy picks Fiz mid against your aniva. Aniva will probably be hurt from this. So move aniva to another lane. Maybe switch your supports (tarric/alistar/leona mid) or switch aniva with your adc.

hell, move your mage top and bruiser mid. Lanes are not concrete.
trying to lane swap in solo q is impossible. no one wants to they say NO I CALLED TOP!